General Election June 8th

[bluethrunthru]

Shirley a parody ffs. abolish bus passes and make old people walk??

the original tweet I just saw was accompanied by a still from the Black Adder Rotten Boroughs episode so I am hoping it is lol

 

[bluethrunthru]

fake news? surely...

Though it does look like Trump /Pence policies ha ha

 

[Gladstonian Liberal]

Labour have never left office with the economy in a better state than the one they found though.

Unemployment has also always increased under a Labour government.

You know it makes sense...vote Tory

 

[mcfc1632]

Just watching Mayday speak and so far its "strong and stable government" - "coalition of chaos" - " Brexit means Brexit" - soundbites and no substance whatsoever - no mention of or denial of their intention to raise direct and indirect taxation - Tax and Spend Theresa it is - yes brilliant campaigning from my point of view.

Seems funny that a no hope non entity like Corbyn worries her so much

So exactly what I have been suggesting - you hear and see only what you want to - that's OK

 

[bluethrunthru]

So exactly what I have been suggesting - you hear and see only what you want to - that's OK

Not really I just listen to what the politician says - if she says something you dislike or disagree with take it up with her not me mate.

 

[mcfc1632]

she is on TV right now being given the opportunity to deny they will raise tax and she won't - she just says that Labour would raise taxes - so increased Tory taxes it seems to be and on Brexit the EU hand is strengthened by this election as it will bring divisions out in the UK again whilst the EU get on with trade talks with the US - the 27 will make sure they are able to whilst we are locked out until we leave. This election gamble is rapidly turning turtle on her.

As I say - you only see and hear what you want to - try thinking outside the box

 

[mcfc1632]

I still say though the Tory problem is the Tory seats where they voted leave, the labour sets where they voted leave and the marginals. Wherever pensioners are if there is a threat to the triple lock or wherever Leavers are who appear now not be be getting what they thought they were voting for the Tories don't have the problem of them voting another way nor do Labour - I'd suspect that most just won't bother voting in a "none of the parties above" style protest move.

In Tory safe seats probably not a problem but in Labour Leave seats and marginals if the Tories can't get people to change alliances or just maintain their support they won't gain ground. Hardened Tories won't vote any other way they just won't bother - I'd suspect most Labour Leavers would baulk at Tory too - as I say a major gamble on Mays part not the foregone conclusion most thought

Well you are welcome to your opinion - I live in a Tory seat - amongst a lot of other Tory seats. They all voted Remain - they will all vote Tory - there is not even a shred of doubt. It is only in some specific places, like Cornwall where they may lose seats.

It is my opinion that you have it totally wrong - and I would suggest that the Tory campaigning might support my view over yours - unless they are all just incompetent?

Maybe we could start a conspiracy theory that secretly May has always been wedded to the Remain view and she is extremely passionate and she has created this situation to make sure that there is effectively a 2nd vote through a GE - she is making sure the Tories lose to ensure that we remain.

It might seem a theory lacking a bit of credibility - but IMO, it is as valid as yours.

 

[mcfc1632]

I just checked - the sound on my TV is working and I did listen to the speech by May and the Q&A after - all the comments I made stand - she just drone on the Sir Linton mantra - strong stable government / coalition of chaos - and dodged answering questions on tax and the EU getting in bed with the US. Did you watch it? What do you think she said? Bear in mind it can be rewatched on the iPlayer and many other outlets

I did not watch it - I may later, but I do not actually need to. That is because you have confirmed what she said - I absolutely believe that you have reported it accurately.

I expect her to say very little other than platitudes and reserve her position. She will avoid getting drawn into debates - she will avoid making definitive statements.

She can afford to - she has the winning position - the others are desperate to get quotes from her that they can attack - why would she make any.

You might not like it - you might well hate it - and I can understand that. It must very frustrating when you hold the views you do.

She is going to win and possibly/probably secure all the other aspects, apart from negotiating Brexit, that she wants to - all without having to do some tub-thumping campaigning - very frustrating.

Unless the polls turn around you will need to get used to it - you have another 6 weeks or so of it.

 

[SWP's back]

which is bad when done by a Labour Government yet prudent when the Tories do it? Behave yourself.

You seem to have difficulty with this idea don't you. Maybe it's you that needs to behave.

If you don't like the fact there is no promise to freeze tax rates, don't vote for the Tories.

 

[The perfect fumble]

 

[SWP's back]

Why would people vote out a Government who is running the economy well and also has a focus on socialist principles?

That's the point though. The first poster that started this back and forth said people vote Labour when the country is doing well and can afford to and that they vote Tory when the economy is in a jam and needs a steady hand.

You've back up that premise.

 

[SWP's back]

The majority of Labour governments have ended up reducing the national debt

Since when is that the measure of an economy?

 

[urban genie]

Jeremy thorbyn ;-) , that's ruined my appreciation of Cate Blanchett as Hela now though

 

[urban genie]

Since when is that the measure of an economy?

Well considering that's what the tories run the line about labours economic record is of increasing national debt, along with labour will raise taxes and punish business.

 

[mcfc1632]

I really feel for the person that did that excellent piece of work.

Very good - but you can imagine how frustrated he/she would be to know that it loses all impact when people are required to envisage Corbyn as some super-hero/champion figure.

 

[Damocles]

That's the point though. The first poster that started this back and forth said people vote Labour when the country is doing well and can afford to and that they vote Tory when the economy is in a jam and needs a steady hand.

You've back up that premise.

I'd sort of agree with that. That people vote Tory when the perception is that the economy is in a jam.

This is because most people don't understand the economy and think it runs exactly the same as their shopping budget.

 

[SWP's back]

Well considering that's what the tories run the line about labours economic record is of increasing national debt, along with labour will raise taxes and punish business.

So you accept it's not, on its own, a measure on the relative success of a government.

Debt rose 1997-2007 whilst the economy was growing nicely.

 

[urban genie]

112 pages in

So you accept it's not, on its own, a measure on the relative success of a government.

Debt rose 1997-2007 whilst the economy was growing nicely.

I am saying neither side can pick or choose whether they consider if they were managing it well or failing badly just to suit a narative, tories in general have left us in worse debt than labour no matter if the economy is on a high of suffering a low, and as economies will rise and fall the time the level of debt matters, presently we are in more debt than all previous labour governments were in combined, austerity was a waste of time (admittedly not on mays watch) but repeating "Strength and stability" infinately under instruction of Lynton isn't telling us what her possible government is going to do about it.

Waiting on the manifesto's but expect it to be fluff while that 3 word soudbite and brexit is all she is willing to say, same as cameron ran on I will have a referendum, waved the supposed note left in the treasury and said fuckall else, no substance what so ever.


Anyway 112 pages in and it's the same dozen people now repeating both sides opinion without a chance of changing their mind and the odd one popping up and adding nothing to the discussion but calling someone a tory boy or loony leftie, so we got 7 more weeks of this? with 10 months after of arguing and gloating, Politics is a bastard.

 

[mcfc1632]

wow - this fella can pull a crowd can't he?

 

[SWP's back]

wow - this fella can pull a crowd can't he?

Yep