If you’re at the game it’s a joke. If you’re watching at home it’s ok. I do about 50/50 so have seen both perspectives. But who cares about the batch going fan. No one - and that’s been evident for years. I can see me attending less and less games when var is involved. It’s killed the match going experience for me. I’ll end up watching it on tv and just going when my kids want to go. Very sad
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Var debate 2019/20
- Thread starter Chi-town blues
- Start date
In the stadium the other night I had a feeling Aguero was offside. When the ball hit the net I stood absolutely still because I just had this horrible feeling. I witnessed the entire stadium absolutely explode in a moment of pandemonium and I just hoped that VAR wouldn’t be needed. I’d actually said to my dad at half time I don’t like VAR because imagine we score a last minute winner and it gets ruled out. Call it a premonition I don’t know.
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
Well-Known Member
Currently it is a joke. I am thinking from your user name you are saying VAR isn’t a joke because you sit at home watching it on TV. Try going to every game and try standing there when the big screen says “VAR Review” and looking around wondering what the fxxk is happening. Thinking “I am so glad I paid for my return flight to the game, hotel and match ticket. I could have stayed at home paid buttons to watch it on Tv” like a load of neutrals and vaguely interested TV viewers and actually be watching the VAR replays. But instead i am 400 quid down and no Fxxkin idea what is going on. VAR is utter sh1te
I never really thought of that. Just why should folk sitting at home get to see probably more than the fuckin' ref got to see and the paying fans get to see some shit 80s tech that sez VAR REVIEW! I suppose the governing bodies are doing their best and we are expected to be grateful!!!!!!
I remember coming away from the Dippers CL QF last season. My mate said where's VAR when you need it? I half jokingly replied it's in next season but you watch we've been shafted because we didn't have VAR tonight but next season we'll be shafted because we have got VAR. Never a truer word said than in jest, eh?
Keep calm fella, I was cheesed off Wed night as well. Cut the name calling out or pm me. Cheers.We also won the league last season and made mistakes in each and every single one of those games, what’s your point? If you think those mistakes cost us then you’re a complete and utter fucking balloon.
If VAR rules out Llorente’s goal as we all know it should now we’ve seen the correct angle, we would have gone through despite those mistakes.
Football, in fact any sport, is impossible to play without making mistakes. Shall we write off last seasons league title because we made a few mistakes along the way.
MillionMilesAway
Well-Known Member
Maybe one has already been posted earlier in this thread but does anyone have a link where it states that the June 2019 handball rule changes are now in use for CL games? I've seen Rossetti's directive being mentioned but not seen what it actually said.
Me too. A number of people have asked, but I haven't seen anyone confirm this 'fact'. I don't think it happened.
I think there is a change in what is given for handball - hence Otamendi at Schalke, the penalty at PSG - but that was an revision to advice to refs on arm position rather than specifically the June 2019 rule change. I don't think it had anything at all to do with the amendment of 'not scoring with an arm'.
Apart from anything else, the June 2019 law changes were only accepted after the Schalke away match, and it would make no sense at all for them to be instructed a couple of months beforehand.
Has to be deliberate according to the rules.We didn’t lose fair and square
Lloronte admitted it was handball.
They make the rules up as they go along, enjoy next season Marvin because VAR will ruin the game, it’s made for tv now not matchgoing fans , i’m Finished with it.Has to be deliberate according to the rules.
Blue Mooner
Well-Known Member
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- 25 Jun 2005
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- 3,139
Has to be deliberate according to the rules.
That is absolutely not the case given the recent handball penalties awarded against us at Schalke and PSG against the rags.
Also, given it is clear that the laws state you cant be offside if your arms are ahead of the second last defender (because you cant score a goal with your arms) it is binary that the goal should have been disallowed - that is why they are tightening the rules next season on handball to explicitly call this out.
Also, why was VAR not used to ensure the penalty in the first leg was re taken when Vertonghen encroached into the area before Sergio had kicked the ball and very clearly gained an unfair advantage.
Secondly, why was VAR not used for the blatant penalty claim on Bernardo when we was very clearly pushed when chasing up a rebound from a lloris save?
The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Plain Speaking
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- 12 Dec 2010
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If he was on duty then, you would imagineMy brother went to Uni with a friend whose job is to decide which VAR clips the refs gets to see. A very important job for the future. I could give his name but that's probably not fair!
He is a lifelong United supporter.
he could well be trying to avoid showing the view that exposed the handball.
The rags have always tried to get people in influential positions behind the scenes, whether it's FA, uefa , FIFA, referees, media etc. I am sure VAR will be no exception.
Those are cases of a defender making themselves a bigger target. To rule out the Llorente goal you would have to show that it was deliberate and in this context consider he is surrounded by defenders in a melee and consider the distance the ball travels after it passes the City defenders. The touch in also incidental. The contact that decisively moved it goal bound was not the forearm. We can hardly say he put it in with his arm.That is absolutely not the case given the recent handball penalties awarded against us at Schalke and PSG against the rags.
Also, given it is clear that the laws state you cant be offside if your arms are ahead of the second last defender (because you cant score a goal with your arms) it is binary that the goal should have been disallowed - that is why they are tightening the rules next season on handball to explicitly call this out.
Also, why was VAR not used to ensure the penalty in the first leg was re taken when Vertonghen encroached into the area before Sergio had kicked the ball and very clearly gained an unfair advantage.
Secondly, why was VAR not used for the blatant penalty claim on Bernardo when we was very clearly pushed when chasing up a rebound from a lloris save?
The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
sandiegoblue
Well-Known Member
Those are cases of a defender making themselves a bigger target. To rule out the Llorente goal you would have to show that it was deliberate and in this context consider he is surrounded by defenders in a melee and consider the distance the ball travels after it passes the City defenders. The touch in also incidental. The contact that decisively moved it goal bound was not the forearm. We can hardly say he put it in with his arm.
The latest UEFA guidelines do not make it a requirement that it has to be deliberate. Also, he moved his whole body towards the ball, which includes his arm, so there you have it, a clear hand ball, followed by hip contact. The only debate is why the ref wasn't shown the correct undisputed view that showed it was hand ball?
Nope. The problem is referees (on the pitch and on the VAR room) are not consistent or honest.Pretty easy to set up rules for var and be total transparent but the fa and uefa dont want that they want it to be all cloak and dagger.
A simple example : Salah commited a red card offense in the first game against Porto. The referee didn't give anything and VAR didn't call him to rectify him.
Aguero offside was a good call but the handball situation of Llorente is controversial. For me, it is not an handball but i can totally see it given by VAR in another game.
The whole handball situation is becoming a problem with VAR in my opinion because with slow motion clips, you can give a lot of handballs when the defender is not even trying to commit a foul. It is very unfair.
Trevor Morley's Tache
Well-Known Member
There is no debate. We all know why. Those who seek to control the game have been given a new tool in their arsenal.The latest UEFA guidelines do not make it a requirement that it has to be deliberate. Also, he moved his whole body towards the ball, which includes his arm, so there you have it, a clear hand ball, followed by hip contact. The only debate is why the ref wasn't shown the correct undisputed view that showed it was hand ball?
No angle shows it to be handball in my opinion. It brushes his forearm but I don't think it's deliberate and hence according to the rules it's not a handball offence. I've read what people have to say about it, and the references made to UEFA guidance but I think it's a lucky goal, but a good goal.The latest UEFA guidelines do not make it a requirement that it has to be deliberate. Also, he moved his whole body towards the ball, which includes his arm, so there you have it, a clear hand ball, followed by hip contact. The only debate is why the ref wasn't shown the correct undisputed view that showed it was hand ball?
ChicagoBlue
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Llorente, himself, KNEW it was handball. That about covers it, don’t you think?!Those are cases of a defender making themselves a bigger target. To rule out the Llorente goal you would have to show that it was deliberate and in this context consider he is surrounded by defenders in a melee and consider the distance the ball travels after it passes the City defenders. The touch in also incidental. The contact that decisively moved it goal bound was not the forearm. We can hardly say he put it in with his arm.
Aguero offside was a good call? It was a terrible call. He was coming back on and not seeking to gain an advantage. He gained no advantage whatsoever. Absolutely ridiculous call.Nope. The problem is referees (on the pitch and on the VAR room) are not consistent or honest.
A simple example : Salah commited a red card offense in the first game against Porto. The referee didn't give anything and VAR didn't call him to rectify him.
Aguero offside was a good call but the handball situation of Llorente is controversial. For me, it is not an handball but i can totally see it given by VAR in another game.
The whole handball situation is becoming a problem with VAR in my opinion because with slow motion clips, you can give a lot of handballs when the defender is not even trying to commit a foul. It is very unfair.
BLUE THUNDER
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- 558
It's pretty fucking obvious that the ball clearly bounces of his forearm onto his hip and then on goal. This is clear in the replay that WASN'T shown to the ref (still no valid explanation as to why ?????). If you cant see this then your a blind bat or fuckin deluded.
Those fuckwits that say it has to be deliberate give your head a wobble, he's not a defender and the rule states you cant score a goal when your hand/arm has contributed to the goal regardless if it was intentional or not.
IFAB LAWS OF THE GAME
"a player gains control/possession of the ball after it touches their hand/arm and then scores or creates a goal-scoring opportunity." Another one says it's a free kick if "the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player's hand/arm."
We were fucked over by incompetent use of the system, be it deliberate or otherwise from those directing replay angles shown. That's all there is to it.
We'll do the domestic treble this year and win the European Cup if and when UEFA (who are as corrupt as FIFA and IOC) decide to play fair.
P.S don't hold your breath.
Those fuckwits that say it has to be deliberate give your head a wobble, he's not a defender and the rule states you cant score a goal when your hand/arm has contributed to the goal regardless if it was intentional or not.
IFAB LAWS OF THE GAME
"a player gains control/possession of the ball after it touches their hand/arm and then scores or creates a goal-scoring opportunity." Another one says it's a free kick if "the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player's hand/arm."
We were fucked over by incompetent use of the system, be it deliberate or otherwise from those directing replay angles shown. That's all there is to it.
We'll do the domestic treble this year and win the European Cup if and when UEFA (who are as corrupt as FIFA and IOC) decide to play fair.
P.S don't hold your breath.
Aguero offside was a good call? It was a terrible call. He was coming back on and not seeking to gain an advantage. He gained no advantage whatsoever. Absolutely ridiculous call.
I know it won't but that incident should signal the end of VAR as it currently exists.
If the goal stands, the finish to the game would be equally exciting and instead of Llorente's goal being controversial, Sterling's goal would be. But that scenario is just as plausible because the referee and the linesman did not make any kind of decision to be reviewed. If the little men in the secret room had let it go, nobody would know at the time. The argument would develop later, the headlines would be different. In another game with two different teams, a different outcome could occur and almost everybody would be happy with it, human error they'd say later.
One poster pointed out the difference from one frame to another. On Wednesday night, Liverpool scored a goal that was immediately signaled offside by the linesman. VAR overruled the decision and the picture shown was not in line with the ball, the ball itself was obscured by one of the players, but the commentators spoke as if it proved Mane was onside. Presumably, that picture with red and blue lines was provided by the host broadcaster. Move the video forward and Mane looks offside but they didn't show any lines on that frame. What they showed really wasn't conclusive and you just had to take it on trust.
Same with Sterling's goal, except that they didn't even bother to show the decisive contact and draw their stupid lines. So, they abused their own system twice in City's game and once in the Porto game. They've got away with it, as well, because lots of people are happy that City are out. How can they use a still image to overrule the linesman if you can't see the ball in the frame? Because there are millions of people watching at home who don't really care much or don't even know the game properly. And the commentators haven't got the nuts to pull the cord on the gravy train. It's just a couple of hours of TV with advertising slots to sell. UEFA want lots of TV viewers so they can get more from advertising and the spectators in the ground are just a minority concern.
The game in Gelsenkirchen was a sinister development that was ignored by journalists. The VAR didn't work but we only found that out when they decided to use it to check the award of a corner. After a long delay, they awarded a penalty for what was clearly not deliberate handball. How come the equipment stopped working at that particular moment? What a coincidence. And if it had stopped earlier, why was this not communicated to the referee and the spectators? Why not make it public? Then the home team got another VAR awarded penalty. The problem was fixed at 2-0 to the home team IIRC.
The sinister bit is that Schalke and the Champions League are both sponsored by Gazprom. The EU gets about 25% of its gas from Gazprom and Germany gets more than a third of its domestic supply from them.
Arguing the toss about isolated incidents is pointless. The implementation of the scam, I mean scheme, is the problem. You can't have unseen men intervening in secret when they see fit. If the ref wants it OK. Better still if a team wants it OK. Let's stop the game and let the men in the room have a full look at it. Everybody knows what's going on, nobody jumps up and down hugging strangers only to be left feeling foolish and cheated.