COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[cleavers]

London patients up 457 - 467 (wk ago 314) Ventilators up 80 - 82 (wk ago 52)

Flat apparently.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Lots of reasons and at this point not relevant to us. We have to deal with things as we are today. Starting with protecting hospitals getting too full, especially at a time of year they are already under pressure.
The only question that counts is if we don’t reduce numbers admitted to hospital which are increasing, by introducing restrictions in areas under most pressure, how do we reduce numbers. I’m yet to here an alternative way to cut those numbers needing treatment. Do you have one?

So you dont know. but still think its irrelevant?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

So many variables for a comparison but you carry on

i think the likley biggest varriable is the way deaths are counted. In Germany you have to died because of Covid, in the UK if you die of something else but have covid, it goes down as a covid death which is utterly ridiculous.

 

[blueparrot]

So you dont know. but still think its irrelevant?

Oh I have a good idea, but arguing about it here today is irrelevant. May just as well say lets do what New Zealand did, compared to how we act here today in this country with our circumstances.
Apart from saying look at a country with completely different circumstances what is you alternative for the action we should take to reduce hospital admissions now, that doesn’t involve restrictions in under pressure areas ?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Oh I have a good idea, but arguing about it here today is irrelevant. May just as well say lets do what New Zealand did, compared to how we act here today in this country with our circumstances.
Apart from saying look at a country with completely different circumstances what is you alternative for the action we should take to reduce hospital admissions now, that doesn’t involve restrictions in under pressure areas ?

you would make a good politician with an answer like that. The point is Sweden is not dissimilar to the UK in many ways. but have dealt with the virus better than us if you believe the death numbers personally i think thats where the comparisson falls apart.

 

[blueparrot]

you would make a good politician with an answer like that. The point is Sweden is not dissimilar to the UK in many ways. but have dealt with the virus better than us if you believe the death numbers personally i think thats where the comparisson falls apart.

Nothing like the UK. I see no alternative offered.

 

[BigJoe#1]

So many variables for a comparison but you carry on

Thanks...

Country........CV19 Deaths as a % of total pop.

Norway.........0.005%
Finland.........0.006%
Germany.......0.011%
Denmark.......0.012%
France.........0.051%
Sweden........0.058%
Italy............0.060%
UK..............0.065%
Spain...........0.072%

Sweden not the best but certainly not the worst, their benefit is they never crippled their economy to get here and they have a clear identifiable area that the messed up on, Care Homes.

 

[squirtyflower]

Burnham won't back down on tier 3 unless there is more money on offer, and then he would reconsider?

They are hardly the actions of a person who is putting the health of Manchester first, either!

Added to the fact he has already said he would actually support another national lockdown, he's making himself look even more stupid than Boris.

The Manchester public would be impacted just the same.

He's making it a party issue and sending the same confusing messages.

The truth is there is no money left, we threw it in an obvious blind panic the first time around, the wider economy is already tanked.

The money now on offer is essentially the best it's gonna get, in a bid to just kick the can down the road a little while longer and help the NHS save as many lives as possible before hopefully a vaccine is rolled out.

Burnham is a snake.
Putting a party political point scoring effort before the lives of the residents of Greater Manchester.

like I said yesterday you have a party screaming for a stronger lockdown across the country whilst denying it to those in most need of a lockdown, the irony is lost on some of the blind on this thread

 

[BigJoe#1]

Nothing like the UK. I see no alternative offered.

My personal view is any type of lockdown would be low down the list of possible solutions. Here is a very high level overview.

I would prefer to see a solution whereby all the money we're currently spending on saving businesses, being spent on protecting the the vulnerable people that need shielding = this by providing intensive support through various means.

I would tell all Businesses (Hospitality, Hairdressers, shops, offices etc,,,to remain open but to deploy effective Covid 19 safe strategies.... entry/exit controls, masks, social distancing, working from home etc...

I would advise the younger people (say under 60's) that they should continue to work but look after themselves and take care and stay safe, this way I would hope the virus would transfer around that community and be kept away from the older generation and care homes and hospitals,

The money that was saved by not paying job protection and furlough etc.... I would ensure through investment, that there were first class quick turnaround testing facilities available to:

Care Homes
Hospitals
anyone that was symptomatic,

This might have to stay in place for six months or maybe more but the essence would be the country would continue working and generate revenue that would pay taxes and wages.

to continue locking down in the hope we will rid ourselves of the virus is in my opinion pointless, it will keep coming back and we will be in this position forever and a day until a vaccine is found, this is something that I believe is totally unrealistic. The public just wont accept it.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Not really.

We have 6 times more people in our capital than Sweden does, their 2nd biggest City would only rank 13th in a list of our urban areas, and their 3rd would rank 27th, a bit smaller than Newport in South Wales, the 4th is about the same size as Burnley in 54th. They have 8 cities above 100k, we have at least 76, which includes places like Lincoln, Burton on Trent and High Wycombe.

the population density of Stockholm is 5012 per square km, whereas London is 5590 per square km. I think you have to look at the density of these areas if you want to make this type of comparison.

 

[Summerbuzz]

the population density of Stockholm is 5012 per square km, whereas London is 5590 per square km. I think you have to look at the density of these areas if you want to make this type of comparison.

Stockholm is a tiny city compared to London, and only part of it as as densely populated as the whole of Greater London. There aren't more than one or two other areas that compare to our Urban areas. Vast swathes of Britain are as densely populated as the outskirts of Stockholm.

I'd find a map but this is about as useful as I can give you.

 

[Summerbuzz]

This one is a lot more detailed.

 

[Healdplace]

GM scoreboard

Manchester 340 - up from 312. 14678 cases. 2431 in week. Pop score up 61 to enter 2600 club at 2655. Weekly Pop 440

Wigan 229 - up from 188. Real concern how far Wigan has fallen. 6518 cases. 1445 in week. Pop score up 69 to 1983. Weekly Pop 439. Could overtake Manchester tomorrow as worst in GM which was unimaginable in August when it was 1 or 2 cases a day.

Oldham 188 - up from 116. 6412 cases. 975 in week. Pop score up 79 to enter the 2700 club at 2704. Weekly Pop 411.

Bolton 178 - up from 162. 7171 cases. 1094 in week. Pop score up 62 to 2494. Weekly Pop 381.

Salford 167 - up from 155. 5558 cases. 1097 in week. Pop score up 64 to enter the 2100 club at 2147. Weekly Pop 423.

Tameside 151 - up from 104. 4805 cases. 805 in week. Pop score up 67 to enter 2100 club at 2122. Weekly Pop 356.

Rochdale 148 - up from 121. 5580 cases. 972 in week. Pop score up 67 to enter 2500 club at 2509. Weekly Pop 437. Also close to overtaking Manchester here.

Trafford 129 - up from 108. 4249 cases. 795 in week. Pop score up 54 to 1790. Weekly Pop 335.

Stockport 118 - up from 95. 4691 cases. 841 in week, Pop score up 41 to 1599. Lead on Trafford now 191 here. Weekly Pop 287.

Bury 113 - up from 92. 4366 cases. 760 in week. Best in GM. Pop score up 59 to 2286, Weekly Pop 398.

 

[True_Blue69]

Burnham is a snake.
Putting a party political point scoring effort before the lives of the residents of Greater Manchester.

like I said yesterday you have a party screaming for a stronger lockdown across the country whilst denying it to those in most need of a lockdown, the irony is lost on some of the blind on this thread

Will be interesting to see if we don't go to tier 3 and it figures improve more than Liverpool who did. That's probably Boris worst nightmare at the moment and would definitely see more people lose faith in the lockdowns. For that reason alone I think he will force is into it.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Nothing like the UK. I see no alternative offered.

i see no explantion?!

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Thanks...

Country........CV19 Deaths as a % of total pop.

Norway.........0.005%
Finland.........0.006%
Germany.......0.011%
Denmark.......0.012%
France.........0.051%
Sweden........0.058%
Italy............0.060%
UK..............0.065%
Spain...........0.072%

Sweden not the best but certainly not the worst, their benefit is they never crippled their economy to get here and they have a clear identifiable area that the messed up on, Care Homes.

people who can only see Covid as an issue will never grasp the issue of having a crippled economy. In a couple of years time they will no doubt be the first to moan that taxes have been raised and benefits cut.

 

[Healdplace]

Other data around the UK today. Merseysde had a worse day than GM did.

Liverpool had 467 cases. Well over Manchester again.

In the past week it has totalled 3369 cases v Manchester's 2431. And its Pop score has risen to 677 v Manchester's 440. At a pop score today of 2846 Liverpool in just 10 days it has gone from below much of GM to be above everywhere in GM.

Only its Merseyside neighbour Knowsley has one higher. It added 157 cases today that increased its pop score as a small borough by 104 (highest in UK today) to become the first place in Britain to have a Pop score pass 3000 at 3051. It has had fewer cases than Stockport over the pandemic which shows you how few it is expected to have on the per 100,000 measure. It is the most infected place in England right now. And with Liverpool and Sefton in the top 10 Merseyside has clear problems.

Only Manchester is in there from GM and at number 10 after falling down that list from number one during the big student testing numbers a week or two ago. It will likely not be in the top 10 next week and only Wigan might sneak in from GM as it stands.

Things could change - and numbers did rise in GM today (though so did everywhere in the NW). But Merseyside is right now significantly more of a concern than GM in terms of case numbers.

Though relative to other parts of the UK - south and east especially - both are up there.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

This table suggests different to your view...

There are only four countries that have a current lower death rate per 100,000 than Sweden. Sweden are at the same figure as Germany 0.3. It is an interesting read.

We have a population roughly six times the size of Sweden we have had over six times as many cases and seven times as many deaths.

EU/EEA and the UK	Sum of Cases	Sum of Deaths	14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 cases per 100 000	14-day cumulative number of COVID-19 deaths per 100 000
Spain	936 560	33 775	312.4	3.6
France	834 770	33 303	365.8	1.7
United_Kingdom	689 257	43 429	333.3	1.7
Italy	391 611	36 427	118.8	0.8
Germany	356 387	9 767	71.6	0.3
Netherlands	211 690	6 699	485.5	1.6
Belgium	202 058	10 359	637.6	2.8
Romania	172 516	5 749	208.7	4.3
Czechia	160 112	1 283	770.5	5.5
Poland	157 608	3 440	162.8	2.3
Sweden	103 200	5 918	85.3	0.3
Portugal	95 902	2 149	181.2	1.6
Austria	62 455	901	172.3	1.1
Ireland	47 427	1 841	211.3	0.8
Hungary	44 816	1 109	154.5	3.0
Denmark	34 441	677	94.9	0.4
Bulgaria	28 505	958	102.4	1.7
Slovakia	26 300	71	269.4	0.3
Greece	24 450	490	47.6	0.9
Croatia	23 665	345	159.6	1.3
Norway	16 136	278	37.3	0.1
Finland	13 133	351	53.1	0.1
Slovenia	11 520	153	260.3	0.6
Luxembourg	10 471	133	287.0	1.3
Lithuania	7 041	112	74.6	0.7
Malta	4 282	45	231.6	1.6
Estonia	4 017	68	38.5	0.2
Iceland	3 929	11	313.7	0.3
Latvia	3 204	42	65.6	0.2
Cyprus	2 379	25	67.4	0.3
Liechtenstein	195	1	192.8	0.0
Total	4680037	199909

Christ.

Your table proves that larger countries have higher death rates.

Fuck me, what a surprise.

And looking at just the last 14 days? Jesus, that's weak.

Now. Try again, total per capita deaths.

I first thought you were just thick. Now it's obvious you're dishonest.

 

[blueish swede]

I think the difference between Sweden and the UK is more to do with household size than population density. In Stockholm 40% of households are single occupancy, in Gothenburg it's over 50%.

The big mesage in Sweden is if you're ill - stay at home.

When people who live on their own stay at home then the transmission chain is broken. So the effective R number is pushed down.

This is probably especially significant in cities where, in the UK, many single people are still going to be in shared housing. In Stockholm the areas that were hardets hit in the spring were areas and communities where multigeneration homes are more common. The Somali and Syrian communities, for example.

 

[kaz7]

i think the likley biggest varriable is the way deaths are counted. In Germany you have to died because of Covid, in the UK if you die of something else but have covid, it goes down as a covid death which is utterly ridiculous.

No it doesnt , they took off the 5 k deaths and reset how they are counted