Political relations between UK-EU

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Churchlawtonblue said:
That wont happen, simply because we have elections. People have a vote and exercise it in this country. I think its pretty clear that British electorate wont allow our welfare state and NHS to be wound down, any party that advocates that just wont get elected. To have a welfare state you need taxes and taxes will evolve like they always have done to ensure they 'capture' enough revenue.

Cant believe I wasted time reading something by Campbell as I cant stand the man, he led the way for the likes of Cummings.

The sooner he disappears off the scene the better rather than stealing a living hanging onto everyone else's coat tails.
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The aim is to make democracy redundant at worst or irrelevant at best.

It is meaningless to the sovereign individual as they are not constrained by nation states, they exist outside national jurisdiction which is the whole point of the article. They become untaxable, therefore the state shrinks automatically as it is deprived of revenue. When the state shrinks, the services the state provides wither on the vine. It is extreme libertarianism, the likes of which i have never read before.

If you do not read people you can not stand, you exist in a singularity of thought. We should all be open to the possibility we are wrong, we do not have to accept we are wrong, but reading other trains of thought can also reinforce you long held belief. I am sorry you feel you wasted your time.

Maybe this will help

Baker Street Herald – London W3CU
 
Rascal said:
The aim is to make democracy redundant at worst or irrelevant at best.

It is meaningless to the sovereign individual as they are not constrained by nation states, they exist outside national jurisdiction which is the whole point of the article. They become untaxable, therefore the state shrinks automatically as it is deprived of revenue. When the state shrinks, the services the state provides wither on the vine. It is extreme libertarianism, the likes of which i have never read before.

If you do not read people you can not stand, you exist in a singularity of thought. We should all be open to the possibility we are wrong, we do not have to accept we are wrong, but reading other trains of thought can also reinforce you long held belief. I am sorry you feel you wasted your time.

Maybe this will help

Baker Street Herald – London W3CU
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Rascal,

For clarification:
I do not find your posts a waste of time, I enjoy reading them, we do not agree on everything, but you clearly know a lot about the subjects you post about and you have a very good understanding of the things which underpin your beliefs.

With regards to your second point about shrining revenue, As i stated, taxes evolve they always have and will continue to do so to deal with business practices, e commerce will be no different imo.

Cheers
 
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Ban-jani said:
Of course it won’t happen.

It’s pure hyperbole and to be honest, if it’s worrying a communist it’s probably a good thing anyway.
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Its nothing to do with brexit anyway. Its the "Britain is free from EU political influence, Tories have complete control over UK politics and they're going to turn it into a fascist state" bollocks we've heard and read time and time again.

Said it before and i'll say it again, if we had a Labour Government presiding over brexit, these sorts of 'fears' wouldn't be uttered. Because it has nothing to do with us being a member of the EU or not, its about hating and fearing the Tories.
 
Rascal said:
The aim is to make democracy redundant at worst or irrelevant at best.

It is meaningless to the sovereign individual as they are not constrained by nation states, they exist outside national jurisdiction which is the whole point of the article. They become untaxable, therefore the state shrinks automatically as it is deprived of revenue. When the state shrinks, the services the state provides wither on the vine. It is extreme libertarianism, the likes of which i have never read before.

If you do not read people you can not stand, you exist in a singularity of thought. We should all be open to the possibility we are wrong, we do not have to accept we are wrong, but reading other trains of thought can also reinforce you long held belief. I am sorry you feel you wasted your time.

Maybe this will help

Baker Street Herald – London W3CU
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Libertarianism for the sovereign individuals, authoritarianism for the plebs. They want to turn nation states' tax and legal regimes into something akin to places like Monaco. No general taxation but taxes on their consumption, with state police forces acting as the heavy handed private security of the rich. As always with libertarians it is an extremely cynical and selfish mindset. I don't think I have ever read a libertarian without this hypocrisy at the heart of their belief system. They always want the rules to be disapplied to themselves but deep in the knowledge that to do that would require a stricter regime for others.
 
Rascal said:
Occasionally you read something and you think about it, you read it again to make sure you read it properly and then you think, fuck me, i have quite possibly been as naive as at any time in my life and i am quite possibly as wrong as I have ever been in my life about politics

This is fucking chilling. I know i am capable of extreme hyperbole at times and I am not a huge fan of Alastair Campbell, but I implore you all, read this.

It is about a concept called the Sovereign Individual.

the brexit revolutionaries have barely begun. britain needs to wake up fast | Alastair Campbell
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Campbell is always worth listening to. He’s got more intelligence, sense and gravitas than the entire current cabinet put together.
 
bluethrunthru said:
www.politicshome.com

A Fisherman In Yorkshire Says He is Closing His 40-Year-Old Business Due To Brexit Red Tape

A decades-old shellfish trader based at a major British port has said that it has been forced to close due to new paperwork brought about by the UK...
www.politicshome.com www.politicshome.com

Previous utterings haven't aged well though

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

Why Bridlington is the lobster capital of Europe

Think of Yorkshire's east coast and you might think of seaside resorts like Scarborough, or fishing boats at Whitby. Or maybe wind farms off Spurn Point. What you probably won't think of is lobsters in Bridlington '“ but you should.
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk www.yorkshirepost.co.uk
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Yeah, we do appear to have wiped out the shellfish business overnight. We have written a strong letter to the EU about it apparently.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Its nothing to do with brexit anyway. Its the "Britain is free from EU political influence, Tories have complete control over UK politics and they're going to turn it into a fascist state" bollocks we've heard and read time and time again.

Said it before and i'll say it again, if we had a Labour Government presiding over brexit, these sorts of 'fears' wouldn't be uttered. Because it has nothing to do with us being a member of the EU or not, its about hating and fearing the Tories.
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Just read these posts, it’s absolutely laughable stuff.

All the trots are out crying about neoliberalism that doesn’t exist and isn’t going to.

The Tories are too scared of losing power to enforce unpopular policies, it’s the one benefit of them being spineless.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Its nothing to do with brexit anyway. Its the "Britain is free from EU political influence, Tories have complete control over UK politics and they're going to turn it into a fascist state" bollocks we've heard and read time and time again.

Said it before and i'll say it again, if we had a Labour Government presiding over brexit, these sorts of 'fears' wouldn't be uttered. Because it has nothing to do with us being a member of the EU or not, its about hating and fearing the Tories.
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You’re right, they wouldn’t. I don’t think it is about hating and fearing the tories as such though, it’s more about just trying to understand the underlying motivations behind certain elements and individuals in the party that are now in power.
 
Ban-jani said:
Just read these posts, it’s absolutely laughable stuff.

All the trots are out crying about neoliberalism that doesn’t exist and isn’t going to.

The Tories are too scared of losing power to enforce unpopular policies, it’s the one benefit of them being spineless.
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The British public are sleepwalking into an ethno-fascist state ruled by the Tories and the libertarians are the root of all evil...


... because we left a political trading bloc.
 
meltonblue said:
You’re right, they wouldn’t. I don’t think it is about hating and fearing the tories as such though, it’s more about just trying to understand the underlying motivations behind certain elements and individuals in the party that are now in power.
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We have systems in place to ensure that such elements can never see the light of day. Parliament, the House of Lords, Royal Assent.

In this instance I think the Queen would have the support of the public to defy the Government of the day, if it ever even managed to pass such acts through the House of Commons.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
We have systems in place to ensure that such elements can never see the light of day. Parliament, the House of Lords, Royal Assent.

In this instance I think the Queen would have the support of the public to defy the Government of the day, if it ever even managed to pass such acts through the House of Commons.
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Which acts are you talking about there?

I agree that there’s enough checks and balances in place to hope they don’t get too far down the road. It’s not as if there hasn’t already been attempts to undermine a lot of those already though, which also questions again what some of the underlying motivations for some involved are.

Im not sure this is the right thread for it though as it will get conflated to people thinking it dismisses the valid motivations, which isn’t the point, nor is Brexit specifically.
 
Rascal said:
Occasionally you read something and you think about it, you read it again to make sure you read it properly and then you think, fuck me, i have quite possibly been as naive as at any time in my life and i am quite possibly as wrong as I have ever been in my life about politics

This is fucking chilling. I know i am capable of extreme hyperbole at times and I am not a huge fan of Alastair Campbell, but I implore you all, read this.

It is about a concept called the Sovereign Individual.

the brexit revolutionaries have barely begun. britain needs to wake up fast | Alastair Campbell
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Perhaps you see why some of us who have understood this from the start are so anti Brexit.

Brexit was never the end game, just a step on the way to the libertarian goal.

People take way too much for granted. Our very way of life is under threat. Our Government isn't working for us, it's working for the billionaires who helped put them in power.

I have raised this many times in the past and so it's good to see someone else take it seriously but you will be astonished at the complete lack of comprehension from those who respond.

Edit. I see the naysayers are out already. Look at what Trump has done in the US and tell me something similar can't happen here. You'd be wrong because it can and there is a lot of power being exerted to ensure it does.
 
meltonblue said:
Which acts are you talking about there?

I agree that there’s enough checks and balances in place to hope they don’t get too far down the road. It’s not as if there isn’t already been attempts to undermine a lot of those already though, which also questions again what some of the underlying motivations for some involved are.

Im not sure this is the right thread for it though as it will get conflated to people thinking it dismisses the valid motivations, which isn’t the point.
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Theoretical acts required to give the Tories supreme powah like those being theorised.

It isn't possible for what is being claimed to ever transpire in the UK, being a member or not being a member of the EU would do nothing to prohibit it either, would it so why is it being touted as a potential result of brexit?

Its fucking nonsense.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Yes, he did a wonderful job with those dodgy dossiers justifying Blairs illegal wars. Cummings learnt a lot from him for sure.
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A bit of low rent whataboutery doesn’t change a thing mate. He looks like a moral and intellectual collussus compared to the Vote Leave caricatures that you lot foisted upon us.
 
dave_blue12 said:
Perhaps you see why some of us who have understood this from the start are so anti Brexit.

Brexit was never the end game, just a step on the way to the libertarian goal.

People take way too much for granted. Our very way of life is under threat. Our Government isn't working for us, it's working for the billionaires who helped put them in power.

I have raised this many times in the past and so it's good to see someone else take it seriously but you will be astonished at the complete lack of comprehension from those who respond.

Edit. I see the naysayers are out already. Look at what Trump has done in the US and tell me something similar can't happen here. You'd be wrong because it can and there is a lot of power being exerted to ensure it does.
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Our political systems are completely different. No, something similar cannot happen here because there is no single 'building' or institution people can 'storm' to seize control. The UK is not the US. A Prime Minister does not hold as much power as a President. Militias are illegal.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
A bit of low rent whataboutery doesn’t change a thing mate. He looks like a moral and intellectual collussus compared to the Vote Leave caricatures that you lot foisted upon us.
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If you want to ignore or downplay the central role he had in 2 illegal wars that resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths because you look up to him and like him then its up to you, We shall just have to agree to disagree, the man is a low life and no certainly better than Cummings.
 
ha ha ha ha - Gove tweeting this out without a hint of irony - no mention that trade is down 68% which could have some impact on the lack of queues. Has echoes of Priti Patels proud boast she had got shop lifting down to almost zero forgetting to mention lockdown had shut nearly all shops for the previous month.

 
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