Keir Starmer

[WNRH]

“My view is simple: in the past decade, Labour has lost touch with ordinary British people. A London-based bourgeoisie, with the support of brigades of woke social media warriors, has effectively captured the party. They mean well, of course, but their politics – obsessed with identity, division and even tech utopianism – have more in common with those of Californian high society than the kind of people who voted in Hartlepool yesterday. The loudest voices in the Labour movement over the past year in particular have focused more on pulling down Churchill’s statue than they have on helping people pull themselves up in the world. No wonder it is doing better among rich urban liberals and young university graduates than it is amongst the most important part of its traditional electoral coalition, the working-class.” Labour MP Khalid Mahmood

Sums up Labour well

Very well.

I don’t get involved much in politics as I believe they are all the same dressed up in different colours.

I truley believe the vast majority of people in this country are in the centre. They may have views that go left and right at times but deep down I think everyone wants to do well for themselves and their family and enjoy the nice things in life and we are a charitable nation at heart always doing our bit in one way or another to help each other out.

You only have to look at this forum, a place that has people communicating with a range of different views, yet get everyone together in a room talking and having a few drinks and you will find the majority want the same things albeit in different ways. I believe this nation as a whole is no different.

The reason why the Conservatives are in power, have been in power for so long and will be for a long time to come is that people are sick of being told they are something they are not by the hard left which Labour represents.

To me, the likes of Ash Sarkar, Owen Jones, Lawrence Fox and Tommy Robinson are no different to each other.

They don’t represent the vast majority of normal people, but while the likes of Fox and Robinson can be easily ridiculed, it is not as easy to do so to the likes of Sarkar and Jones for fear of people labelled something that ends in “ist”

For me Starmer was done the minute he and Angela Raynor jumped on the bandwagon and took the knee for something that was relevant 4000+ miles away. It was a cringeworthy desparate photo opportunity that backfired and gave a false narrative that Britain is no different to the US.

You can deplore racism in all forms yet be sick to death of having slogans and actions rammed down your throats everywhere you look.

By posing for that photograph they were not representing normal people.

That to me is why Labour is finished.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

That isn't your local council reps fault though, it's the fault of central government (the Tories). Policing has been slashed.

Not just Police though... but the support services that the police need to function. One of my kids ,whose a police officer, spends much of the day either doing a mental nurses job ,waiting on mental health services or social services to arrive (very often they don't)

 

[Len Rum]

Very well.

I don’t get involved much in politics as I believe they are all the same dressed up in different colours.

I truley believe the vast majority of people in this country are in the centre. They may have views that go left and right at times but deep down I think everyone wants to do well for themselves and their family and enjoy the nice things in life and we are a charitable nation at heart always doing our bit in one way or another to help each other out.

You only have to look at this forum, a place that has people communicating with a range of different views, yet get everyone together in a room talking and having a few drinks and you will find the majority want the same things albeit in different ways. I believe this nation as a whole is no different.

The reason why the Conservatives are in power, have been in power for so long and will be for a long time to come is that people are sick of being told they are something they are not by the hard left which Labour represents.

To me, the likes of Ash Sarkar, Owen Jones, Lawrence Fox and Tommy Robinson are no different to each other.

They don’t represent the vast majority of normal people, but while the likes of Fox and Robinson can be easily ridiculed, it is not as easy to do so to the likes of Sarkar and Jones for fear of people labelled something that ends in “ist”

For me Starmer was done the minute he and Angela Raynor jumped on the bandwagon and took the knee for something that was relevant 4000+ miles away. It was a cringeworthy desparate photo opportunity that backfired and gave a false narrative that Britain is no different to the US.

You can deplore racism in all forms yet be sick to death of having slogans and actions rammed down your throats everywhere you look.

By posing for that photograph they were not representing normal people.

That to me is why Labour is finished.

Very highly principled of you.
Keith and Angela take the knee and you're finished with Labour but no mention of the dire state of the country after ten years of Tory rule.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

This is perhaps a great observation and sums up the problems Labour is facing. It does go beyond that, Blair is touted a lot as bringing sides together but Blair gained Scottish votes which will never be seen again. Appealing to the working class depends upon your definition of the working class.

The problem with Labour is that they've pandered to the likes of this woman,
Owen Jones, and sundry other middle class far left irrelevant mouthpieces. They are the last types to understand ordinary working people, they have never had interaction with them, otherwise they'd have understood that what they continually harp on about doesn't chime with them.
This 'Working class' tag has long since vanished, Labour haven't moved on from sooty towns with thousands in factories.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Very highly principled of you.
Keith and Angela take the knee and you're finished with Labour but no mention of the dire state of the country after ten years of Tory rule.

How can people be so hot and bothered about others taking the knee as a show of support against racism. This winds more people up than all the stuff Tories do ?! The mind boggles.

 

[urban genie]

Labours problems are it's image and has been for a while, it goes left and it can attract huge support in it's ideas and policies but not translate them into votes because it chooses the wrong person to voice them to the electorate that turn out (mainly older generations)
It goes neo-lib and it just seems like a watered down version of the tories and why vote for a cheap copy.


Wanting to grab the central/soft right vote and ignoring the plight of the traditional working class communities has been an issue since midway through new labour where it was apparent nothing was changing in these communities and a City focused financial based econimy was sucking apl the prpsperity to london and a to a lesser extent few other big cities.

On Hatlepool though in general the turnout is 40000ish and labour win with a decent majority it was less than 30000 thursday and last time that happened the Labour MP only jist scraped to a win, it is not so much labour have lost these places completely, it is those that went out and voted for them just are not bothering. 40000 eligible voters in hartlepool didn't bother to.

The silent majority who choose to not vote is having more sway in epection as political apathy grows.


Reading the shambles of the campaign though is worrying, it seems starmer has filled his team and NEC with people even less qualified for the job of runing an election as the last idiot in charge

 

[Len Rum]

How can people be so hot and bothered about others taking the knee as a show of support against racism. This winds more people up than all the stuff Tories do ?! The mind boggles.

Agreed.
'Finished with Labour' because Starmer and Rayner take the knee but (to take just one example) Johnson fails to attend five Cobra meetings just before the pandemic and not an eyelid batted.

 

[Tb1981]

Very well.

I don’t get involved much in politics as I believe they are all the same dressed up in different colours.

I truley believe the vast majority of people in this country are in the centre. They may have views that go left and right at times but deep down I think everyone wants to do well for themselves and their family and enjoy the nice things in life and we are a charitable nation at heart always doing our bit in one way or another to help each other out.

You only have to look at this forum, a place that has people communicating with a range of different views, yet get everyone together in a room talking and having a few drinks and you will find the majority want the same things albeit in different ways. I believe this nation as a whole is no different.

The reason why the Conservatives are in power, have been in power for so long and will be for a long time to come is that people are sick of being told they are something they are not by the hard left which Labour represents.

To me, the likes of Ash Sarkar, Owen Jones, Lawrence Fox and Tommy Robinson are no different to each other.

They don’t represent the vast majority of normal people, but while the likes of Fox and Robinson can be easily ridiculed, it is not as easy to do so to the likes of Sarkar and Jones for fear of people labelled something that ends in “ist”

For me Starmer was done the minute he and Angela Raynor jumped on the bandwagon and took the knee for something that was relevant 4000+ miles away. It was a cringeworthy desparate photo opportunity that backfired and gave a false narrative that Britain is no different to the US.

You can deplore racism in all forms yet be sick to death of having slogans and actions rammed down your throats everywhere you look.

By posing for that photograph they were not representing normal people.

That to me is why Labour is finished.

Bang on
Great post
All we want is improvements in our lives for everyone Not a revolution
All these idiots you mention make money out of the shit they spout
Oh and Angela raynor is like the school bully. A horrible shouty woman

 

[urban genie]

If they divide though that just makes the Tories stronger. I think the el ephant in the room is a lot of Labour members and MPs don’t like the views of their historic base support ie the working class.

Somewhere in the mid 70s or 80s becoming an MP went from a civic duty people did for their belief in a party ideal into a career, staight out of UnI into a westminster internship and a job as a PPS on a decent salary, never having once experienced what most of their constituents lives are like.

Career polititians who, though in opposing partys are on a similar wave length on many things.


And that is labours undoing, the tories have alway been a jobs for the boys, well off, public school lot and with that don't need or expect to relate to the common person, but also gives off an idea they belong in charge that many buy into.
Labour on the other hand were the party of the people, yet are as out of touch with many of them as they have ever been, misjudging them and expecting them to back them while not understanding them at all.

Corbyn was guilty of this too, which is why his initial upsurge and popularity in policies didn't sustain, while he refused to engage with the media as he distrusts them, johnson actively acted the tosser and loverble clown, every socialist country has been highly proud of itself and it's identity and history, unfortunately many on the left here sneer or put down it a fact that national pride exists and is very much an issue for many is treated as a sore subject and it doesn't play well.

Wales bucked the trend and Labour have done very well thursday, as did Birnham and Manchesters labour party, both called out the tories tge last few years and acted like they cared about their areas ratger than pay lip service to them.


Starmer though saying forget brexit, I love our flag and I ain't corbyn was enough, the man is fuckingusepess

 

[urban genie]

Bang on
Great post
All we want is improvements in our lives for everyone Not a revolution
All these idiots you mention make money out of the shit they spout
Oh and Angela raynor is like the school bully. A horrible shouty woman

Have you met her?

I have she was very pleasant a person, maybe she isn't all the time and is as you say, but I can only go off theine time

 

[urban genie]

Agreed.
'Finished with Labour' because Starmer and Rayner take the knee but (to take just one example) Johnson fails to attend five Cobra meetings just before the pandemic and not an eyelid batted.

It's a ridiculous reason

 

[Tb1981]

How can people be so hot and bothered about others taking the knee as a show of support against racism. This winds more people up than all the stuff Tories do ?! The mind boggles.

Because it shows they are more arsed about something (btw completely wrong and appalling and glad the guy was found guilty) That happened in another country and showing their solidarity than actually listening to the people of this country about brexit and other things.
I don’t think any normal person believes black lives do not matter

 

[Tb1981]

Have you met her?

I have she was very pleasant a person, maybe she isn't all the time and is as you say, but I can only go off theine time

I don’t want to meet her.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I always said Starmer was not electable, Neither is Nandy.

Labour should dissolve as a party, let the centrists go there way and follow their Blairite whatevers

Leave us on the Left to get on with opposing the Tories not appeasing or imitating them.

The problem with that route is you will never get in power. A poster on here said most people in the UK are in the centre politics wise, I think thats true. As a country we always reject extremism, there has never been the support for the far right in this country like there is on the continent. Surely its better to wrap up some socialist policies in a more centre left party ans inact some like Blair did than never implementing any?

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

PR in multi seated constituencies would return a much more electorate representative government. Probably a lot of coalitions for a while.
You’re stuck with what you’re getting at the moment as long as you have FPTP.

That suits the Tories.

Suited Blair when he was winning landslide victories with little more than mid 40s shares of the vote. He banged on about PR but he never bothered to introduce it in his three terms in office.

I don't think it would suit the UK electorate as they prefer a single party in government I'd suggest. The only reason a lot of Labour supporters are suddenly keen on it is that they know Labour has practically no chance of winning an election with FPTP for the foreseeable. Labour heading into an election stating they would form a coalition with the SNP would decimate them in England.

 

[Tb1981]

The problem with that route is you will never get in power. A poster on here said most people in the UK are in the centre politics wise, I think thats true. As a country we always reject extremism, there has never been the support for the far right in this country like there is on the continent. Surely its better to wrap up some socialist policies in a more centre left party ans inact some like Blair did than never implementing any?

Problem is a lot of the left think of Blair as a tory.
Funny really when they bang on about the working class voting against their own interests when they as a party continue to make themselves unelectable.
Labour are their own worst enemy, all the conservatives have to do is be not quite as bad as labour

 

[paulchapo]

They used to call Major the grey man well Starmer is the insipid invisible Man. I have no idea what he or the Labour party stand for anymore and neither does he appear to.

As a person I just don't see who he appeals to. He is the human equivalent of the standard complaints letter you get from a company after you've sent a very valid and heartfelt complaint to them. Apologising you weren't satisfied this time with the service provided, but that they hope to see you back soon and that your one bad experience won't put you off from using them again. In short it means absolutely nothing to the complainant, just like Starmer means absolutely nothing to your average voter.

Here you have a Tory party that in the middle of an international health crisis have been unashamedly filling their own pockets and those of their mates with multi million pound contracts, irrespective of whether they can do the work or not. You have a party whose major incompetence in a pandemic probably cost thousands more lives than it should have done. Also in the midst of that pandemic some of it's members and advisors were caught breaking the rules they set out that everyone else had to adhere to for fear of prosecution if they didn't. Yet STILL people have voted for them rather than Starmer and Labour. It is staggering and a damning indictment of the party and the man supposedly leading them

 

[BlueHammer85]

They used to call Major the grey man well Starmer is the insipid invisible Man. I have no idea what he or the Labour party stand for anymore and neither does he appear to.

As a person I just don't see who he appeals to. He is the human equivalent of the standard complaints letter you get from a company after you've sent a very valid and heartfelt complaint to them. Apologising you weren't satisfied this time with the service provided, but that they hope to see you back soon and that your one bad experience won't put you off from using them again. In short it means absolutely nothing to the complainant, just like Starmer means absolutely nothing to your average voter.

Here you have a Tory party that in the middle of an international health crisis have been unashamedly filling their own pockets and those of their mates with multi million pound contracts, irrespective of whether they can do the work or not. You have a party whose major incompetence in a pandemic probably cost thousands more lives than it should have done. Also in the midst of that pandemic some of it's members and advisors were caught breaking the rules they set out that everyone else had to adhere to for fear of prosecution if they didn't. Yet STILL people have voted for them rather than Starmer and Labour. It is staggering and a damning indictment of the party and the man supposedly leading them

Corbyn would have been that man. Energetic, angry, holding Tory’s to account.

Labour would still have got stuffed.

 

[WNRH]

Very highly principled of you.
Keith and Angela take the knee and you're finished with Labour but no mention of the dire state of the country after ten years of Tory rule.

Firstly I was never with Labour.

Secondly this is a thread about Keir Starmer who is the leader of the Labour Party.

If I wanted to comment on how the Conservative party were doing I would pop along over to their thread and be highly principled there.

 

[paulchapo]

Corbyn would have been that man. Energetic, angry, holding Tory’s to account.

Labour would still have got stuffed.

The msm did a complete hatchet job on him, no surprise as he was a danger to them and their interests if he got elected. They feared and hated him as much as their so called sports journalists do us, with the same slanted reporting