Coronavirus (2021) thread

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Not entirely sure what your question means. You can always conjure individual examples to support your case, but we’re discussing a general situation now where there are finite resources and seemingly infinite numbers of people presenting. Medical staff will always strive to save as many people as possible in normal times, but these are not normal times so it’s futile to equate the two.

This report shows how difficult and distressing the choice already was, and that was before vaccines had been made available to all.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200428-coronavirus-how-doctors-choose-who-lives-and-dies
Sorry not really looking for an argument but when you mentioned the impact on health workers my own experience of working in social care and seeing dying people refused medical attention either in place or hospital clouds my judgement.
 
Sorry, had a few last night. I think I meant, let's take for example Astrazeneca; if you we're previously hesitant to take this due to not being confident in the timescale of its release for the ability to determine long term complications or not. You were called an anti vaxxer.

However, it has since been proven to cause blood clots.
Not sure what your argument was but just for information the Astrazeneca vaccine is believed to have caused less than 100 deaths from blood clots from 50 millions vaccinations in the UK. How many people die crossing the road, or falling down the stairs? I don't know what the comparative risk is but you're talking about a tiny risk, and anyone concerned about blood clots should take a Covid vaccine because one of the secondary consequences of covid illness is blood clots.
 
Not sure what your argument was but just for information the Astrazeneca vaccine is believed to have caused less than 100 deaths from blood clots from 50 millions vaccinations in the UK. How many people die crossing the road, or falling down the stairs? I don't know what the comparative risk is but you're talking about a tiny risk, and anyone concerned about blood clots should take a Covid vaccine because one of the secondary consequences of covid illness is blood clots.
If that's true then I've fallen victim to my own anti media bias and just gone from the headline. Didn't they say they weren't using this particular vaccine for this reason though and do you have any links to back this up? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity and not in the hope of winning an argument.
 
If that's true then I've fallen victim to my own anti media bias and just gone from the headline. Didn't they say they weren't using this particular vaccine for this reason though and do you have any links to back this up? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity and not in the hope of winning an argument.

Vaccines (and all medicines) are approved on the basis that the benefit exceeds the risk, not that they are risk free.

All medicines continue to gather safety data after approval, a process known as pharmacovigilance.

The AZ vaccine remains far more beneficial than risky, however:

- for *most* people, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are safer still
- the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are also probably a bit more effective under most circumstances

So Pfizer and Moderna are preferred. That doesn't mean AZ isn't net beneficial, it is, and is still available for people who for various reasons have potential adverse reactions to the Pfizer/Moderna jabs.

If the Pfizer and Moderna jabs didn't exist, we'd absolutely still be using the AZ jab.
 
Vaccines (and all medicines) are approved on the basis that the benefit exceeds the risk, not that they are risk free.

All medicines continue to gather safety data after approval, a process known as pharmacovigilance.

The AZ vaccine remains far more beneficial than risky, however:

- for *most* people, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are safer still
- the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are also probably a bit more effective under most circumstances

So Pfizer and Moderna are preferred. That doesn't mean AZ isn't net beneficial, it is, and is still available for people who for various reasons have potential adverse reactions to the Pfizer/Moderna jabs.

If the Pfizer and Moderna jabs didn't exist, we'd absolutely still be using the AZ jab.
That's my issue. Benefits to who? Society, the elderly? So is war. It benefits someone. But you don't want to go to war and risk being killed for it.
 
Interesting piece in the Times this morning about the number of unvaccinated taking up hospital beds and the impact that has on medical staff who cannot treat others requiring immediate care.

Must be a huge challenge on remaining non-judgemental.
Very much so.
 
That's my issue. Benefits to who? Society, the elderly? So is war. It benefits someone. But you don't want to go to war and risk being killed for it.

Benefits the individual is the assessment.

Societal benefits are not considered in medicines approval.
 
The numbers in SA look terrible for infectiousness but so far they're looking brilliant for hospitalisation and death considering the infectiousness.
 
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