Coronavirus (2021) thread

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Gabriel said:
Not entirely sure what your question means. You can always conjure individual examples to support your case, but we’re discussing a general situation now where there are finite resources and seemingly infinite numbers of people presenting. Medical staff will always strive to save as many people as possible in normal times, but these are not normal times so it’s futile to equate the two.

This report shows how difficult and distressing the choice already was, and that was before vaccines had been made available to all.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200428-coronavirus-how-doctors-choose-who-lives-and-dies
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Sorry not really looking for an argument but when you mentioned the impact on health workers my own experience of working in social care and seeing dying people refused medical attention either in place or hospital clouds my judgement.
 
Jesus2020 said:
Sorry, had a few last night. I think I meant, let's take for example Astrazeneca; if you we're previously hesitant to take this due to not being confident in the timescale of its release for the ability to determine long term complications or not. You were called an anti vaxxer.

However, it has since been proven to cause blood clots.
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Not sure what your argument was but just for information the Astrazeneca vaccine is believed to have caused less than 100 deaths from blood clots from 50 millions vaccinations in the UK. How many people die crossing the road, or falling down the stairs? I don't know what the comparative risk is but you're talking about a tiny risk, and anyone concerned about blood clots should take a Covid vaccine because one of the secondary consequences of covid illness is blood clots.
 
Marvin said:
Not sure what your argument was but just for information the Astrazeneca vaccine is believed to have caused less than 100 deaths from blood clots from 50 millions vaccinations in the UK. How many people die crossing the road, or falling down the stairs? I don't know what the comparative risk is but you're talking about a tiny risk, and anyone concerned about blood clots should take a Covid vaccine because one of the secondary consequences of covid illness is blood clots.
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If that's true then I've fallen victim to my own anti media bias and just gone from the headline. Didn't they say they weren't using this particular vaccine for this reason though and do you have any links to back this up? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity and not in the hope of winning an argument.
 
Jesus2020 said:
If that's true then I've fallen victim to my own anti media bias and just gone from the headline. Didn't they say they weren't using this particular vaccine for this reason though and do you have any links to back this up? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity and not in the hope of winning an argument.
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Vaccines (and all medicines) are approved on the basis that the benefit exceeds the risk, not that they are risk free.

All medicines continue to gather safety data after approval, a process known as pharmacovigilance.

The AZ vaccine remains far more beneficial than risky, however:

- for *most* people, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are safer still
- the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are also probably a bit more effective under most circumstances

So Pfizer and Moderna are preferred. That doesn't mean AZ isn't net beneficial, it is, and is still available for people who for various reasons have potential adverse reactions to the Pfizer/Moderna jabs.

If the Pfizer and Moderna jabs didn't exist, we'd absolutely still be using the AZ jab.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
Vaccines (and all medicines) are approved on the basis that the benefit exceeds the risk, not that they are risk free.

All medicines continue to gather safety data after approval, a process known as pharmacovigilance.

The AZ vaccine remains far more beneficial than risky, however:

- for *most* people, the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are safer still
- the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are also probably a bit more effective under most circumstances

So Pfizer and Moderna are preferred. That doesn't mean AZ isn't net beneficial, it is, and is still available for people who for various reasons have potential adverse reactions to the Pfizer/Moderna jabs.

If the Pfizer and Moderna jabs didn't exist, we'd absolutely still be using the AZ jab.
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That's my issue. Benefits to who? Society, the elderly? So is war. It benefits someone. But you don't want to go to war and risk being killed for it.
 
Gabriel said:
Interesting piece in the Times this morning about the number of unvaccinated taking up hospital beds and the impact that has on medical staff who cannot treat others requiring immediate care.

Must be a huge challenge on remaining non-judgemental.
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Very much so.
 
Jesus2020 said:
That's my issue. Benefits to who? Society, the elderly? So is war. It benefits someone. But you don't want to go to war and risk being killed for it.
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Benefits the individual is the assessment.

Societal benefits are not considered in medicines approval.
 
The numbers in SA look terrible for infectiousness but so far they're looking brilliant for hospitalisation and death considering the infectiousness.
 
BlueAnorak said:
The numbers in SA look terrible for infectiousness but so far they're looking brilliant for hospitalisation and death considering the infectiousness.
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While I hope this holds out i think this week will be the telling week.

If the standard 1 week lag continues with omicron. 7 days ago they were at 2k cases.

mid by the end of this week it’s still looking good hospitalisations wise then I’ll be thinking things are looking up for sure.
 
Jesus2020 said:
If that's true then I've fallen victim to my own anti media bias and just gone from the headline. Didn't they say they weren't using this particular vaccine for this reason though and do you have any links to back this up? I'm asking out of genuine curiosity and not in the hope of winning an argument.
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Decision to drop the AZ vaccine from the booster programme is almost entirely petulance on the part of the Gov. based on AZ's decision to select a non-UK site for their new manufacturing facility.
 
BlueAnorak said:
I see GPs have opted out of making home visits to vaccinate those stuck at home.
GPs really have covered themselves in glory during this pandemic (NOT).
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I kind of see your point, but in fairness doctors and nurses have worked very hard over the last 20 months or so, and they are dedicated individuals that want to help people.

I find it quite depressing when people slag them off as being lazy, when the real ire should be directed at the 'reforms' this government imposed on the NHS that resulted in the loss of 50,000 doctors and nurses, 17,000 hospital beds, and regional centres that co-ordinated everything.

Doctors haven't opted out of home visits, it's the government telling them they can if they want to.

How far does our healthcare have to descend to under the 'teflon tory' propaganda before people wake up and understand what's happening to the NHS?
 
You know, I've treated this virus with caution and respect, I am fully vaccinated and never stoped wearing a mask because it's not just about me. We've not personally lost anyone in our family directly to covid but have been living much more hermit like for 18 months, and I don't mind doing that overall. But when the BBC have a leading story of 'next pandemic could be worse', I get quite angry.

Could, would, should. Sheer speculation and fearmongering, Becky Morton the author should be ashamed. I won't link it here because it's unnecessary, as is the article itself.
 
NPBlue said:
I kind of see your point, but in fairness doctors and nurses have worked very hard over the last 20 months or so, and they are dedicated individuals that want to help people.

I find it quite depressing when people slag them off as being lazy, when the real ire should be directed at the 'reforms' this government imposed on the NHS that resulted in the loss of 50,000 doctors and nurses, 17,000 hospital beds, and regional centres that co-ordinated everything.

Doctors haven't opted out of home visits, it's the government telling them they can if they want to.

How far does our healthcare have to descend to under the 'teflon tory' propaganda before people wake up and understand what's happening to the NHS?
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I know a good few hospital based health professionals that would totally disagree with your comments with reference to GPs.
Incidently the GP Union refused to accept visiting their patients to inject boosters as part of the UK Omnicron preparation drive.
This also includes the District nurses that GPS hold the budget purse strings for.
Optional was the best they would do.
 
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Pfizer accused of funding anti-AstraZeneca information

US drugmaker Pfizer, the world's dominant Covid vaccine maker, has been accused of funding educational presentations that said its UK rival AstraZeneca US drugmaker Pfizer, the world's dominant Covid vaccine maker, has been accused of funding educational presentations that said its UK rival...
www.cityam.com www.cityam.com
 
Back from Turkey, 2 negative PCR tests done in last week and now a 3rd done with Randox as part of the day 2 test that’s needed.

Guess what? They want you to break your isolation and drive to one of their drop off points to hand it in, fucking jokers. £100 for 2 tests and they don’t even stick a return postage on it and encourage behaviour we are told we should not do as in going out.
 
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