Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Chippy_boy]

What is a very sad and depressing thought for me - and a bit off topic perhaps - is how on earth did Putin get into such a state that he thinks that killing people is perfectly OK? What on earth did his parents ever teach him? How do monsters like this get made?

Of course sometimes, wars are unavoidable in the protection of our freedoms, but we should never be the aggressors. Killing in self-defence if someone with a knife breaks into your house, and tries to kill you and your kids? Well that is one thing.

But sitting in an ivory tower and ordering the executions for e.g. the Skripals or Litvinenko, or doubtless the countless dozens or hundreds in Russia we never get to hear about? And sending thousands of Russian soldiers to their deaths, in order to achieve some political objective?

How on earth does anyone ever become this evil??? It boggles my mind.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I seen the video footage. They aren't stahed ffs. The children were Hystericalcryong behind bars.

I've seen actual film footage of Darth Vader lowing up planets.

 

[KS55]

Thank you for saving me from having to listen to Russell Brand, one of the many modern "celebrities" that seem to have no reason for existing.

Brand is a leading member of the Nincompoop Society. He has the Order of Stupidity (useless celebrity division), third class.

 

[RobMCFC]

Is anyone saying otherwise?

Some people on here genuinely seem to have difficulty in differenting between seeking to understand something with seeking to justify it.

I don't know, but I just thought I'd make my position clear. I have seen pages and pages on here where people are posting about why Putin might feel under threat. However, the main reason he feels under threat is because he is as mad as cheese. It may well be that this madness is some form of demetia/paranoid schizophrenia, but I guess we'll never really know.

I don't believe that any sane/well person would do what he has done to "not have NATO on his doorstep" when as many have already pointed out, he'll have even more NATO on his doorstep if he takes Ukraine into part of his 21st-Century Russian Empire.

 

[Octavian]

What is a very sad and depressing thought for me - and a bit off topic perhaps - is how on earth did Putin get into such a state that he thinks that killing people is perfectly OK? What on earth did his parents ever teach him? How do monsters like this get made?

Of course sometimes, wars are unavoidable in the protection of our freedoms, but we should never be the aggressors. Killing in self-defence if someone with a knife breaks into your house, and tries to kill you and your kids? Well that is one thing.

But sitting in an ivory tower and ordering the executions for e.g. the Skripals or Litvinenko, or doubtless the countless dozens or hundreds in Russia we never get to hear about? And sending thousands of Russian soldiers to their deaths, in order to achieve some political objective?

How on earth does anyone ever become this evil??? It boggles my mind.

He no doubt learned it as a KGB agent, they’ve never given a fook for human life those cunts.

Illegal tactics were the way of the world when he was a young agent.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Alaska/Russia , Norway/ Russia both in the frozen wastelands. were the only borders where the founding members of NATO/Russia interjected. Alaska is separated from Russia by the Bering sea, Norway land border with Russia is tiny.

Using Russia and USSR is disengenous, the USSR no longer exists, the Warsaw Pact has gone. The Warsaw Pact bordered NATO of course, but since its disintegration many Warsaw Pact countries are now NATO countries.

Putin may be an Imperialist who wants to restore the former influence of Russia over its former satellite states, but it has shown no sign at all of the expansionism of NATO.

Lenin referred to Imperialism as the highest stage of Capitalism and NATO is being used to promote Capitalism and as we have seen in this thread demonise the left. It is eradication of left wing thinking on a mass scale.

Putin though is not a left wing leader, he is an authoritarian Nationalist and I have said before he is dangerous and should be stopped. However NATO is not the cuddly benign organisation its made out to be. This is not as black and white as its being made out. The propaganda is not one sided. FFS, we had Nadine Dorries praising the BBC yesterday and she wanted to defund it last week.

Maybe as @swpsback says i should educate myself on twitter

My business partner for the legal firm we have lives in Paderne and I'm only 7km away up the hill from you. I am going to get him helivacced out of there now incase you start drinking with him and I suddenly find I have to redistribute all profits back to the Portuguese state ;-)

I see the CDU over here have still failed to condemn Russia for the invasion and the paradox as you have correctly pointed out is that Putin is a far right nationalist leader with a hammer and sickle projected in the background as cover - far left ideology and far right ideology always lead to an autocratic leader presiding over a supressed nation and nothing ever good comes out of either.

 

[Vic]

I think the way the earth revolves has more to do with it. When Chernobyl happened, it was Poland and the Scandinavian areas worst affected unless I'm mis-remembering.

I think you'll find the atmosphere revolves with the earth. Either that or we'd be living in 1000 mph winds. Latitude might make a difference.

 

[Cheesy]

The first two were russians claiming successes which were found to be bullshit, so not sure what you think I am infering.

All I put were ones APSnews DW and Reuters fact checkers have debunked, I never just randomly picked them for shits n giggles

My point as I have said several times is social media coverege cannot be trusted

You link to Russian police beimg cunts is a tpicture not flagged are false anywjere so why would I think it's fake, it was reported from a russian news site also, one later taken off air.

Apologies, I misread your first post.

I'll delete it now. I'll leave this one on here though to show I fucked up!

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

What is a very sad and depressing thought for me - and a bit off topic perhaps - is how on earth did Putin get into such a state that he thinks that killing people is perfectly OK? What on earth did his parents ever teach him? How do monsters like this get made?

Of course sometimes, wars are unavoidable in the protection of our freedoms, but we should never be the aggressors. Killing in self-defence if someone with a knife breaks into your house, and tries to kill you and your kids? Well that is one thing.

But sitting in an ivory tower and ordering the executions for e.g. the Skripals or Litvinenko, or doubtless the countless dozens or hundreds in Russia we never get to hear about? And sending thousands of Russian soldiers to their deaths, in order to achieve some political objective?

How on earth does anyone ever become this evil??? It boggles my mind.

He did his nvq in murder working his way up the KGB. Assassinations, executions, making people go missing. Everyone is expendable and everyone who is a threat gets eradicated, he couldn’t give two shits about sending Russian assassins to use a chemical weapon on British sovereign soil, nor those poor souls who perished on a Malaysian Airlines 777 that was shot down by Russian forces.

The Russian public should be waking up and asking the question why he is imposing martial law if this military operation is going to plan. The talks he had with Macron were frightening in revealing his plans, he won’t stop until Ukraine is destroyed. I think he is prepared for world war 3, he will fuck off to some bunker in Siberia and throw the Russian people to being vaporised. His family will resurface in 30 years time when the nuclear winter dies down to look at having even larger parts of the planet to restart the human race on.

 

[mosssideblue]

What is a very sad and depressing thought for me - and a bit off topic perhaps - is how on earth did Putin get into such a state that he thinks that killing people is perfectly OK? What on earth did his parents ever teach him? How do monsters like this get made?

Of course sometimes, wars are unavoidable in the protection of our freedoms, but we should never be the aggressors. Killing in self-defence if someone with a knife breaks into your house, and tries to kill you and your kids? Well that is one thing.

But sitting in an ivory tower and ordering the executions for e.g. the Skripals or Litvinenko, or doubtless the countless dozens or hundreds in Russia we never get to hear about? And sending thousands of Russian soldiers to their deaths, in order to achieve some political objective?

How on earth does anyone ever become this evil??? It boggles my mind.

There were discussions on TV yesterday and someone was saying that Putin has been in Steroids for years and a side effect of prolonged use us aggression.

Don't know if there is any truth or medical opinion to back that up though.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

He did his nvq in murder working his way up the KGB. Assassinations, executions, making people go missing. Everyone is expendable and everyone who is a threat gets eradicated, he couldn’t give two shits about sending Russian assassins to use a chemical weapon on British sovereign soil, nor those poor souls who perished on a Malaysian Airlines 777 that was shot down by Russian forces.

The Russian public should be waking up and asking the question why he is imposing martial law if this military operation is going to plan. The talks he had with Macron were frightening in revealing his plans, he won’t stop until Ukraine is destroyed. I think he is prepared for world war 3, he will fuck off to some bunker in Siberia and throw the Russian people to being vaporised. His family will resurface in 30 years time when the nuclear winter dies down to look at having even larger parts of the planet to restart the human race on.

That would make a cracking film tbf.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I don't know, but I just thought I'd make my position clear. I have seen pages and pages on here where people are posting about why Putin might feel under threat. However, the main reason he feels under threat is because he is as mad as cheese. It may well be that this madness is some form of demetia/paranoid schizophrenia, but I guess we'll never really know.

I don't believe that any sane/well person would do what he has done to "not have NATO on his doorstep" when as many have already pointed out, he'll have even more NATO on his doorstep if he takes Ukraine into part of his 21st-Century Russian Empire.

I am not so daft as to think there is any genuine military threat to Russia from having Ukraine in NATO. And I am pretty sure - although not 100% convinced - that Putin actually didn't feel very threatened by it either.

But whether he did or not, I genuinely think it is quite a big part of what's in his head. There's an excellent (IMO) interview with Michael Portillo from early last week - before the full invasion had started - and he gives some interesting perspective. The fact that Kiev was a thriving city whilst Moscow was still a village, and that in some respects Russia was borne out of Ukraine. The most significant Russian orthodox churches are in Kiev. It's an area of deep cultural significance and with deep cultural ties with Russia. I can very much imagine that a power-crazed Imperialist is monumentally fucked off at the demise of their empire, but that Ukraine's leaving his grip is particularly aggravating. And yes, there's also fighting in the eastern Ukrainian districts with some Ukrainians who are genuinely unhappy about their countries move westwards. And things like that only add to his ire and to some extent embolden him.

I can perfectly understand in these circumstance why Putin thought "no fucking way am I having them join NATO as well, that is a bridge too far". It may not have been over fear of NATO attack, just thrashing around with frustration at seeing his once great empire slowly an inexorably dwindle. I think it became his line in the sand.

 

[Cheesy]

I see the CDU over here have still failed to condemn Russia for the invasion and the paradox as you have correctly pointed out is that Putin is a far right nationalist leader

The political spectrum is not a straight line, it's more of a horseshoe or even a circle. The far left and far right have far more in common than they would like to admit.

 

[Octavian]

I am not so daft as to think there is any genuine military threat to Russia from having Ukraine in NATO. And I am pretty sure - although not 100% convinced - that Putin actually didn't feel very threatened by it either.

But whether he did or not, I genuinely think it is quite a big part of what's in his head. There's an excellent (IMO) interview with Michael Portillo from early last week - before the full invasion had started - and he gives some interesting perspective. The fact that Kiev was a thriving city whilst Moscow was still a village, and that in some respects Russia was borne out of Ukraine. The most significant Russian orthodox churches are in Kiev. It's an area of deep cultural significance and with deep cultural ties with Russia. I can very much imagine that a power-crazed Imperialist is monumentally fucked off at the demise of their empire, but that Ukraine's leaving his grip is particularly aggravating. And yes, there's also fighting in the eastern Ukrainian districts with some Ukrainians who are genuinely unhappy about their countries move westwards.

I can perfectly understand in these circumstance why Putin thought "no fucking way am I have them join NATO as well, that is a bridge too far". It may not have been over fear of NATO attack, just thrashing around with frustrating at seeing his once great empire slowly an inexorably dwindle. I think it became his line in the sand.

In my opinion the reason he didn’t want Ukraine in NATO is because if fucks his long term plans of a new Russian empire. NATO is and was never going to invade Russia and occupy it, that would just never happen and Putin knows it.

 

[west didsblue]

It could be because Putin himself made a long speech justifying the invasion as a necessary means to unify the Slavic peoples, and demonising the Ukrainian democratically elected government as "drug addicts and degenerates".

He's openly a fascist, he's not even pretending otherwise.

It really is as simple as that. Why the pseudo intellectuals on here are seeking to find an alternative reason that this has happened is beyond me.

 

[Octavian]

The political spectrum is not a straight line, it's more of a horseshoe or even a circle. The far left and far right have far more in common than they would like to admit.

And in extreme circumstances like this, conservatives and liberals often end up on the same side.

 

[andyhinch]

NATO could have said NO.

Which is the whole point, NATO have been too eager to increase their membership and fuck everyone else. Was the dangers of this expansionism ever considered, doesn't look like it as it was too eager to increase its sphere of influence. By definition NATO is a defensive alliance, so why the expansionism?

Can Ukraine say no to Russia mate ?

 

[blue for life]

The political spectrum is not a straight line, it's more of a horseshoe or even a circle. The far left and far right have far more in common than they would like to admit.

I rarely agree with you but I have always said the same thing

 

[SWP's back]

Understanding the conflict in Ukraine and perspectives for the anti-war movement

RECENT developments in Ukraine have shocked and devastated people across the globe and posed a significant obstacle to all those around the world who fight for peace.

morningstaronline.co.uk

To think you used to call yourself el Presidente on here. You’ve got all the credibility of an alpaca at Crufts.

 

[manchester blue]

I've served my time, and if I was younger and abled bodied, I would take up your offer.

Was only messing pal. I do agree with most if what you say to be fair. I can only see Russia victory and would rather not see anymore loss of life.