PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[blueish swede]

How much money are they talking about?

 

[Norbert D]

First day back in the office, spoke to fans of various clubs, Everton and Arsenal etc yes in Manchester…no one I have spoken to has much of a bad word for City, now that could be they don’t want to upset a FOC but it’s more they can see what’s happening at Chelsea, £1.5B debt written off, splurged £600m in transfer fees in the
last six months. Probably more people than you think, are of the opinion this is a shabby stitch up.

 

[Centurions]

How much money are they talking about?

Who are 'they' and what money?

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

First day back in the office, spoke to fans of various clubs, Everton and Arsenal etc yes in Manchester…no one I have spoken to has much of a bad word for City, now that could be they don’t want to upset a FOC but it’s more they can see what’s happening at Chelsea, £1.5B debt written off, splurged £600m in transfer fees in the
last six months. Probably more people than you think, are of the opinion this is a shabby stitch up.

You can fool some of the people some of the time…..

 

[Username Required]

Probably more people than you think, are of the opinion this is a shabby stitch up.

It is a shabby stitch up.

 

[Atypical]

Can't remember for sure what Rangers did but the draconian punishment handed to one of the biggest clubs in the world makes me very afraid. If they did the same to us it would mean starting in the fourth level and a helll of a long road back losing a generation of young fans along the way. Why rags are getting giddy about this I don't know as they seem to finally have a team and manager who can compete with us fair and square. As for the dippers take us out of the equation and they are still miles behind Arsenal and nited. Why Villa want to get involved I can't think they are the biggest under achievers in football and our absence will not alter that. The only conlation is the Bears came back and so can we but it could take ten years. Hoping or the best , but fearing the worse. F**k em all.

Rangers went bankrupt a lot different. They didn’t get kicked out, they had to start again.

 

[Woody135]

I realise that you’re getting bombarded with questions, so apologies for adding another! Is it really plausible that we would’ve been able to continually deceive/mislead a firm as credible as BDO over such a long period of time? Would it be pretty damaging to their reputation if this was all going on directly under their noses?

As someone with audit and financial due diligence experience I find it unfathomable that the revenue or staff costs that we have booked in our accounts are not significantly matched to a signed and iron clad contract.

Given the basis of our revenue we’re heavily weighted to commercial over matchday. Hence that is low quantity sizeable contractual cash flows over a period of time. Theres almost no where to hide, theres either a contract or cash receipt or theres not. Id actually argue it would be much easier to inflate matchday revenue when its made of thousands of £20 fan payments and whos ticking all of those.

And if its in a signed contract with a willing third party its done. Its binding. To have somehow put materially (for it to even be worth discussing millions) more commercial revenue into the accounts without a valid contract will have required a material dereliction of duties on both the audit and fdd side which again I find highly unlikely.

Both the audit and fdd (Silver Lake) will have read and reviewed for example every word of the Etihad, Etisalat, Nissan etc contracts and ticked it to the revenue in the accounts. There is no way we could have recorded materially more or less without someone noticing.

Where the cash has come from obviously cant be proven because MCFC doesnt have the bank statements of Etihad for example. But how Etihad meets its contractual liabilities is their business not that of MCFC.

Thats revenue. For costs its less clear. For revenue youre arguing is what is there real. For costs youre arguing is something missing. Much harder to spot or prove.

Hypothetically MCFC could have arranged for staff to have been paid through a second stream from another company and hence minimised the costs associated to MCFC but again I find it unfathomable that given the professionalism of our management that any such second streams of pay wouldnt have had a contract with a description of the service the staff is providing to that other company.
There is nothing wrong with that and if those services are independent of their role with MCFC then the costs recorded elsewhere are not MCFC costs.

I reacted emotionally when this was all released but when I logically think through what it would have taken to get to this stage and be true, it would be one of the largest sports related financial cover up with collusion industrially across the professional services industry.

I dont see it.
How the arbitration process plays out is to be seen

 

[Impeccable One]

Isnt it 100,000? No chance. Cant even fill our stadium!!

People don’t have to leave home to sign an online petition [emoji16]

 

[Moss Side's Finest]

DO you really think we generate more revenue than Real Madrid?

You're obviously on the wind up but I'll answer your question in any case as it helps me make the point.

Absolutely I believe we make more revenue than Real Madrid. Why? Because we are a well oiled (pardon the pun) club led by clever and savy business people who have invested time, effort and money over many years to maximise off the field revenue channels via a long term hard worked strategy.

Real Madrid, like the rags are an old shagged out club still living off its name and historic success, still making short term decisions in both a business and player sense, hoping that their very name alone will help them keep pace with the new forward looking owners, and if it doesn't, they do exactly what they're doing now, get a gang together and get the others kicked out of the league

 

[Impeccable One]

As someone with audit and financial due diligence experience I find it unfathomable that the revenue or staff costs that we have booked in our accounts are not significantly matched to a signed and iron clad contract.

Given the basis of our revenue we’re heavily weighted to commercial over matchday. Hence that is low quantity sizeable contractual cash flows over a period of time. Theres almost no where to hide, theres either a contract or cash receipt or theres not. Id actually argue it would be much easier to inflate matchday revenue when its made of thousands of £20 fan payments and whos ticking all of those.

And if its in a signed contract with a willing third party its done. Its binding. To have somehow put materially (for it to even be worth discussing millions) more commercial revenue into the accounts without a valid contract will have required a material dereliction of duties on both the audit and fdd side which again I find highly unlikely.

Both the audit and fdd (Silver Lake) will have read and reviewed for example every word of the Etihad, Etisalat, Nissan etc contracts and ticked it to the revenue in the accounts. There is no way we could have recorded materially more or less without someone noticing.

Where the cash has come from obviously cant be proven because MCFC doesnt have the bank statements of Etihad for example. But how Etihad meets its contractual liabilities is their business not that of MCFC.

Thats revenue. For costs its less clear. For revenue youre arguing is what is there real. For costs youre arguing is something missing. Much harder to spot or prove.

Hypothetically MCFC could have arranged for staff to have been paid through a second stream from another company and hence minimised the costs associated to MCFC but again I find it unfathomable that given the professionalism of our management that any such second streams of pay wouldnt have had a contract with a description of the service the staff is providing to that other company.
There is nothing wrong with that and if those services are independent of their role with MCFC then the costs recorded elsewhere are not MCFC costs.

I reacted emotionally when this was all released but when I logically think through what it would have taken to get to this stage and be true, it would be one of the largest sports related financial cover up with collusion industrially across the professional services industry.

I dont see it.
How the arbitration process plays out is to be seen

Just been told every journo has blocked you on Twitter, nobody needs to read sensible rational stuff like this [emoji6]

 

[chickaroon]

Isnt it 100,000? No chance. Cant even fill our stadium!!

You don't need that many.

 

[blueish swede]

Who are 'they' and what money?

What sort of sums are we talking about for these financial irregluarities - Compared to City's income?

 

[Ajm1985]

Thanks! Sorta felt like I actually got Neville to defend City when I called him and Carragher out on not liking City, so Neville felt an urge to appear impartial for once ha.

Haha canny tactic and definitely seemed that way. I've no idea why Carragher, and others there, feel that 'financial doping' and actually injecting drugs are equivalent - particularly with what we are ostensibly being accused of. Anywho, what a week to be on the show!

 

[MCFC1993]

First day back in the office, spoke to fans of various clubs, Everton and Arsenal etc yes in Manchester…no one I have spoken to has much of a bad word for City, now that could be they don’t want to upset a FOC but it’s more they can see what’s happening at Chelsea, £1.5B debt written off, splurged £600m in transfer fees in the
last six months. Probably more people than you think, are of the opinion this is a shabby stitch up.

Pretty much my experience from football fans in the office so far this week. Nobody seems to be that arsed about this as they know we've got owners who can afford to spend money. I'm not a FOC either.

Social media massively exaggerates what normal people think, even sports journalists aren't really writing relatable articles that capture the feeling of traditional football fans. Everyone is trying to promote how they feel individually or push across their ideas and it's just not healthy for anyone.

I know there are lot of people becoming disillusioned with football but the trick is to avoid shit opinions or at the very least place no value on them. The only thing that matters is how you feel about your club.

 

[Norbert D]

You're obviously on the wind up but I'll answer your question in any case as it helps me make the point.

Absolutely I believe we make more revenue than Real Madrid. Why? Because we are a well oiled (pardon the pun) club led by clever and savy business people who have invested time, effort and money over many years to maximise off the field revenue channels via a long term hard worked strategy.

Real Madrid, like the rags are an old shagged out club still living off its name and historic success, still making short term decisions in both a business and player sense, hoping that their very name alone will help them keep pace with the new forward looking owners, and if it doesn't, they do exactly what they're doing now, get a gang together and get the others kicked out of thr league

Don’t bite, just another rag ****

 

[paulchapo]

I keep seeing our situation being compared to what happened at Rangers but surely it's very different?

Didn't Rangers go into administration? I'm too lazy and stressed with our situation to start looking into it.

On these charges all this talk about stripping titles, being thrown out of the league/relegated shouldn't even be on the agenda. Why should innocent fans and the manager and players suffer because clerical staff fucked up? ( If they did of course) If we fixed matches, bunged referee's then yes that would be very serious charges and I would understand and accept we cheated, but we didn't. Anyone witnessing the decisions going against us over the years would know if anything the opposite was true. A few extra bob in Mancini's pocket and the players should be a fine at best.

 

[CatMan]

I feel sorry for those fans who still have to go into a workplace or school! Every day could yet feel like the day after a derby defeat for months to come. In short, it's very depressing.

That said however, I think we will eventually produce documentation to discount any claims of wrong doing less those rather subjective charges of failure to help the Premier League's investigation. In fact, I'm convinced the Premier League only put those there so once we can prove our innocence, they can justify their actions and avoid complete ridicule by saying that if they had everything City supplied prior to the hearing, it could have been avoided!

In fact neither the Premier League nor City benefit by any of this and I am certain the Premier League's actions are being forced by certain clubs, who may well have forced the Premier League's hand by threatening to support independent regulation unless they charged us.

The whole scenario is awkward for the Premier League and a bloody nightmare for City, because in essence, the innuendo and besmirching that our club's name now finds itself under is far worse than any fine, points deduction or relegation. All those are inconsequential to having every media outlet openly undermine every effort this club has made for 15 years!

Frankly, regardless of any beating of the charges, the shit has stuck and I am not sure how we can ever hope to reestablish our good name even if completely exonerated.

Of course, if in some way we have all been too optimistic and we are proved to be conclusively guilty as charged, then I believe the only solution would be to somehow have the club dissolved and reformed under new fan led ownership, and reclimb the football pyramid from the bottom. Rangers did it and frankly most Rangers fans I know are glad that the club reformed as it gave the a complete reboot.

Strangely, what I don't want is some middle ground outcome of being guilty and trying to carry on as normal after a points deduction, relegation or huge fine. That will leave our club in complete limbo and a laughing stock for all eternity.

 

[Metalartin]

I just thought it was funny. I remember when some of you put that Spiegel report onto Bayern etc. A left leaning magazine in Hamburg that e.g. published the Hoeneß investigation story before and that is in Hamburg - about as far or further from Munich as London...

Who wants to see conspiracies can find them everywhere if you are just spinning it the way you want to.

I think you were misinterpreting the main target of that comment you responded to personally(Leterme). Bayern and it's reps have been one of the most vocally hostile clubs towards City(seems to have quietened down). Just type this into google "Rummenigge Man City" and see how many results you get. The press in the UK bombarded us with anyone and his dog who wanted to have a pop at the club. At the time those leaks cam out nobody had ever heard of Der Spiegel. You're right that it was knee-jerk grasping but try and understand what that must have felt like for the fans when it broke. The press are used as tool in the UK most certainly but I can't say I know much about Germany.

 

[johnnytapia]

Glad to see, someone can get money out of you.

All those strikes Clarkie. Penniless

 

[Norbert D]

I think you were misinterpreting the main target of that comment you responded to personally(Leterme). Bayern and it's reps have been one of the most vocally hostile clubs towards City. Just type this into google "Rummenigge Man City" and see how many results you get, the press in the UK bombarded us with anyone and his dog who wanted to have a pop at the club. At the time those leaks cam out nobody had ever heard of Der Spiegel. You're right that it was knee jerk grasping but try and understand what that must have been like. The press are used as tool in the UK most certainly but I can't say I know much about Germany.

What we do know is that Bayern have won the league eleven years in a row and have no sign of stopping, they actually make the French top division look competitive.