Middle East Conflict

[Prestwich_Blue]

50 villages wiped out and 700,000 Palestinians displaced and that was just during the Nakba. But yeah just ignore the very definition of Ethnic cleansing.

It’s not Egypt that refuse the right of return for Palestinian refugees, want to take a guess who does?

Your ignorance on this subject is clear and obvious for all to see. Not taking the piss, but I suggest you do some reading up on the history from both sides perspective.

800,000 Jews displaced from their homes in Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, Yemen and other communities as well over the years since 1948. Where's your concern for them?

Israel was pretty well the only place they could go in 1948, and the new country managed to absorb them, with help from Jewish charities and organisations. None had, or even wanted, a right of return, mainly because they finally felt safe, although it couldn't have been easy for them being uprooted from the communities and cultures which were the only things they knew up till then.

On top of the concentration camp survivors who tried to return to their former homes in Poland and weren't exactly made welcome. The Kielce pogrom involved Polish soldiers and police standing by while a group of Jews were beaten to death and even taking part themselves. Some of the injured survivors were attacked when being taken to hospital. Following that, most Polish Jews took the hint and left.

In pre-revolutionary Russia, the 'May Laws' of 1882, following a number of pogroms, forced Jews out of their homes and into the Pale of Settlement, which was effectively a large ghetto or Gaza on steroids. They had their land and homes taken from them and were restricted to the towns and cities in the Pale. Not surprisingly, over a million decided to leave for Europe, the USA and other places, including my own great-grandparents.

Now this doesn't justify bombing civilian areas, or forcing people out of their homes under threat. The point is that over the years, Jews have opted for living relatively safely somewhere unfamiliar, over living in the place they were born under threat. North African, French-speaking Arabs moved to France for a better life. Many Eastern Europeans came here after WWII because they wanted to live in a democracy, rather than under Stalin's rule. Huge numbers of Irish people came here to escape famine and poverty.

So why are Palestinians still living in refugee camps 75 years on and are apparently the only people who can't live anywhere else?

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Palestine rally tomorrow in Manchester with the tagline “Support Palestinian Resistance” rather than a call for peace. Not impressed.

It’s not a surprise. It’s clear that there’s a large number of pro Palestine people who are anti semitic and hate Jewish people.

Obviously you can hate the Israeli government, their policies and what’s happening in the region, but some of the things I’m seeing online and in videos - it’s clear as anything what some of these people really think. As you say, Why would you have a support the resistance protest

Innocent people on both sides are seemingly ignored.

 

[domalino]

The quote is from an article in the FT. I'm not sure it matters who retweets it.

LMAO, I post a direct quote from the Israeli president stating clearly his disregard for innocent civilians and you’re trying to deflect about the person that tweeted it. Wow, you’re something else!

I believe that’s a perfect, museum-grade, example of whataboutery.

Ignore the message, attack the messenger.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The quote is from an article in the FT. I'm not sure it matters who retweets it.

I filed it under if "Carlsberg did uninformed waffle...."

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Palestine rally tomorrow in Manchester with the tagline “Support Palestinian Resistance” rather than a call for peace. Not impressed.

Let's just hope nobody gets misgenderered and forces the police to actually act.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Thank fuck for the BBC, don't care what anyone else thinks. they're by far the most balanced professional news service we could get.

I think RTE and ONE(Virgin) over here have been pretty good.
I saw the Israeli ambassador being interviewed last night.
She really did not come across well at all.
She was given a proper grilling and repeatedly brought back to the questions asked when she deflected with whataboutery.
It was quite worrying tbh. It really reflected an attitude that we will do what we want and we are right.

 

[Ithryn Luin]

Are you really saying there is absolutely no Propaganada from either side

Yes......no Propaganada from either side..........!

But be reassured, Hamas will be producing "propaganda" once the IDF enter Gaza.

 

[cucumberman]

800,000 Jews displaced from their homes in Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Morocco, Tunisia, Yemen and other communities as well over the years. Where's your concern for them? On top of the concentration camp survivors who tried to return to their former homes in Poland and weren't exactly made welcome. Israel was pretty well the only place they could go in 1948, and the new country managed to absorb them, with help from Jewish charities and organisations. None had, or even wanted, a right of return, mainly because they finally felt safe.

The Kielce pogrom involved Polish soldiers and police standing by while a group of Jews were beaten to death and even taking part themselves. Some of the injured survivors were attacked when being taken to hospital. Following that, most Polish Jews took the hint and left.

In pre-revolutionary Russia, the 'May Laws' of 1882, following a number of pogroms, forced Jews out of their homes and into the Pale of Settlement, which was effectively a large ghetto or Gaza on steroids. They had their land and homes taken from them and were restricted to the towns and cities in the Pale. Not surprisingly, over a million decided to leave for Europe, the USA and other places, including my own great-grandparents.

Now this doesn't justify bombing civilian areas, or forcing people out of their homes under threat. The point is that over the years, Jews have opted for living relatively safely somewhere unfamiliar, over living in the place they were born under threat. North African, French-speaking Arabs moved to France for a better life. Many Eastern Europeans came here after WWII because they wanted to live in a democracy, rather than under Stalin's rule. Huge numbers of Irish people came here to escape famine and poverty.

So why are Palestinians still living in refugee camps 75 years on and are apparently the only people who can't live anywhere else?

Given your extensive and comprehensive riposte, I am in no position to be of equivalent understanding to the history.

I do have contemplations that is perhaps of relevance, but for now send you via PM.

 

[Vic]

I think that’s the nub of the argument in here.
Nobody I’ve read in here is denying the horror.
The criticism of Israel is revolving around their government becoming what they profess to hate.

"He who fights with monsters must take care lest he become a monster himself." (Nietzsche)

 

[lust overlord]

Yes......no Propaganada from either side..........!

But be reassured, Hamas will be producing "propaganda" once the IDF enter Gaza.

Of course they will.
And that is a war they stand a good chance of winning,because the inevitable Israeli armed response will provide it.

It's sickening.

 

[hilts]

Grant Three Names absolutely fuckin dismantled. How is this chancer anyway near being our Defence Minister.

Politician in dying on his arse shocker.

 

[lust overlord]

Dishonest people don't debate in good faith. In the past the PLO were as much a thorn in the side of Israel as Hamas were.

They were primarily Secular and even had communist support (including infamous figures like Carlos the Jackal).

It's politics not religion that is the main driver.

So take your filth elsewhere please, I'm not interested in talking to you anymore.

The politics have ensured the Israeli response to the atrocity.
Don't want to appear weak to their enemies nor their own people.
Gotta stay in power.
So we get,what we get.
One day an "advanced" nation will do what is right rather than using their undeniable military might indiscriminately.

 

[blueinsa]

Which is wrong also.
But is there any consideration for the ordinary piss poor people of the region.
Seems to me they are just canon fodder and shields.
Soon to be statistics to demonstrate revenge to the world.

Absolutely there is consideration from the whole world about innocent civilians.

Israel and the IDF have issued warnings to these civilians to get out of what they deem is now an active battle zone. I appreciate the difficulty in that for many but the warning was and still is being given.

Hamas won’t come out into the open to fight the IDF, they will use innocent civilians as human shields as it adds to their political capitol and last Saturday, no such warnings where given to innocent Israeli civilians.

It’s an horrific situation for everyone involved.

Right or wrong and I firmly believe it right, Israel has decided to try and wipe Hamas out and won’t stop until they believe they have achieved that military goal. Sadly, Gaza will not be recognisable when they have finished, many many more will be dead on both sides but nothing is going to stop what is about to happen other than a Hamas ceasefire and the return of hostages and that simply will not happen.

My opinion is that lies with Hamas and its cowardly terrorist attacks.

 

[lust overlord]

Politician in dying on his arse shocker.

He'd struggle to hold a job down emptying dog shit bins that tosser.

 

[Don Karleone]

And there you have it. Straight from the dog’s mouth. Israeli President holds all of Gazan Palestinians responsible. At least some of you can stop pretending that they don’t!

From the man himself.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

Absolutely there is consideration from the whole world about innocent civilians.

Israel and the IDF have issued warnings to these civilians to get out of what they deem is now an active battle zone. I appreciate the difficulty in that for many but the warning was and still is being given.

Hamas won’t come out into the open to fight the IDF, they will use innocent civilians as human shields as it adds to their political capitol and last Saturday, no such warnings where given to innocent Israeli civilians.

It’s an horrific situation for everyone involved.

Right or wrong and I firmly believe it right, Israel has decided to try and wipe Hamas out and won’t stop until they believe they have achieved that military goal. Sadly, Gaza will not be recognisable when they have finished, many many more will be dead on both sides but nothing is going to stop what is about to happen other than a Hamas ceasefire and the return of hostages and that simply will not happen.

My opinion is that lies with Hamas and its cowardly terrorist attacks.

Do you think it's possible you hold extreme beliefs?

 

[stonerblue]

Just to be clear, will this be your stance for eternity now? As in, forget everything in the decades/century's which happened before last Saturday's attacks and disregard anything which happens from now on, every drop of civilian blood will be blamed on Hamas and nobody else? Israel have carte blanche to nuke Gaza and the West Bank and kill as many children as they wish and it'll all be Hamas's fault?

There are (at least) two fucking sides to this and none of them are innocent. Unbelievable.

Well said

 

[lust overlord]

From the man himself.

Yeah the oppressed,the used,the victimised,have always throughout history have risen up and thrown off the evil ones....

For fucks sake.

 

[hilts]

He'd struggle to hold a job down emptying dog shit bins that tosser.

He may as well have just said "listen of course loads of people won't get out in that time frame if they are trying but we have backed Israel and they will do what they will do anyway"

Its what he is saying anyhow without actually saying it. He knows it, the reporter knows it, I know it and you and everyone else does as well.

 

[blueinsa]

Do you think you maybe might hold extreme beliefs?

For believing it’s right for Israel to fight Hamas?

No, not at all.