Middle East Conflict

[halfcenturyup]

There's a decent Louis Theroux documentary about it all, most of it seems to revolve around a religious right to be there

That's what I was afraid of .....

 

[MouldensChippy]

I suppose the question is why Iran sponsors terrorism. It clearly isn't because they care so much for the Palestinian people.

I can't help thinking the US could be handling Iran better.

To spread their 'revolution' to the rest of the planet, and be the most influential on Islam St !

 

[SWP's back]

So, you'd prefer a nuclear armed Iran ?

You'd also like the Ayatollahs to hvae even more free cash to indulge terrorism around the world ?

As earlier stated, there are always, and will always be bad actors ( Putin, for example) to undermine any agreement in which they don't get 100% of what they want.

Weird you’d prefer the guy that Putin literally owns/handles then.

 

[MouldensChippy]

Weird you’d prefer the guy that Putin literally owns/handles then.

Where did I say that I'd prefer him, was it before, or after I called him a bit of a knob ?

 

[Oldham Exile]

I'm sure everyone is hoping the truth is that nobody has been killed.

I wish I shared your full confidence

 

[SWP's back]

 

[AntonDonJuan]

This is a decent, unbiased (and short) explanation if you can be arsed..

Thanks mate

 

[kaz7]

Talking about the tragedy at the hospital car park last night,
how many have died? 500 seems too much for a car park at night.
There must have been enough daylight in the meantime to figure out an accurate number.

Why do we get the outcome of 500 in a second and next day nobody is arsed to get an accurate figure when the consequences are so huge?

Because thousands went there thinking it was a safe place to be

 

[Ducado]

So when supposedly reliable news outlets have stories saying City are guilty of the charges against us and should be heavily punished, we need to believe that?

It's an old cliche but truth really is the first casualty of war. We don't know for sure what happened to that hospital, apart from hundreds of people being killed. It could be that it was an Israeli missile/bomb that targeted the hospital, or that missed its intended target and hit the hospital instead. That deserves the utmost condemnation if so, and is very possibly a war crime.

Or it could be that it was a Palestinian rocket, that maybe ignited ordnance stored at the hospital. I believe that would possibly constitute a war crime as well. But I think we both know, deep down, that the chances are that neither side will be held accountable in an international court for these. Same for Putin and many others committing these acts.

The issue is that, whatever the truth, there are plenty on both sides who will refuse to accept it.

It's all about controlling the narrative, in the City analogy those against City control the narrative no matter how innocent the club is the narrative has been set, their job is done, once the narrative genie is out of the bottle it's very hard to put back

In this war it's exactly the same, Hamas control the narrative it suits them, it will never be proved conclusively (Forensics are a bit tricky in Gaza at the moment) but as long as the chosen audience believes it the job is done,it's an old tactic but in this information age it's even more powerful

As they say a lie has gone around the world twice before the truth has even got it's socks on

 

[goalmole]

What really pisses me off is the people wheeled out on TV basically saying any criticism of Israel is anti-Jew. Its a stupid viewpoint and helps nothing, so why do the news allow it

It shuts down criticism and debate.
The sacred memory of 6 million victims of the Holocaust has been weaponised by the Israelis.

 

[kaz7]

Taken the news away from ukraine , putin will be laughing

 

[vmsuhail]

So, you'd prefer a nuclear armed Iran ?

You'd also like the Ayatollahs to hvae even more free cash to indulge terrorism around the world ?

As earlier stated, there are always, and will always be bad actors ( Putin, for example) to undermine any agreement in which they don't get 100% of what they want.

Didn't the JCPOA ensure Iran would'nt have nuclear weapons ?

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Waiting for the truth? basically every single major news outlet published that Israel bombed a hospital. Who are the public supposed to trust if we can't trust that, who exactly do we wait for to give us the truth

I’d say rule of thumb should be like a criminal court.
Beyond a reasonable doubt not balance of probability.
This should go for how any incident is reported as well as how we are willing to interpret what they report.

If it’s not up to the highest standard then don’t report it as a definite fact.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

It shuts down criticism and debate.
The sacred memory of 6 million victims of the Holocaust has been weaponised by the Israelis.

It's one of the two most traumatic events in the history of the Jewish religion (the other being the destruction of the Second Temple in 79AD). It's also in living memory for some people, albeit fewer and fewer. 'Saying 'Never Again' is not weaponising it.

You could also reasonably argue that the Palestinians have weaponised the Nakba.

 

[CTID1988]

It's one of the two most traumatic events in the history of the Jewish religion (the other being the destruction of the Second Temple in 79AD). It's also in living memory for some people, albeit fewer and fewer. 'Saying 'Never Again' is not weaponising it.

You could also reasonably argue that the Palestinians have weaponised the Nakba

Im not really sure why goalmole brought the holocaust into it. My original post was referring to people shutting down any debate or criticism of Israel by claiming it is anti-jewish to do so, which doesn't help anything imo

 

[BlueAnorak]

It shuts down criticism and debate.
The sacred memory of 6 million victims of the Holocaust has been weaponised by the Israelis.

So much so that many Palestinian's want it to be forgotten and to continue Hiters pogrom. Hamas, Hezbolah and the current Iranian leadeeship for sure.
Many of those who support extreme Palestinian groups won't think that will happen but if they win, it will. Absolutely guaranteed. The actions of Hamas last week are proof of that.

 

[M18CTID]

Is he Jewish? This seems to be important to some posters.

If he is Jewish, have you heard of him? Because apparently you're supposed to know everybody who is Jewish ;)

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Im not really sure why goalmole brought the holocaust into it. My original post was referring to people shutting down any debate or criticism of Israel by claiming it is anti-jewish to do so, which doesn't help anything imo

Of course it isn't. The issue is how that criticism is framed and there are scenarios where it can be.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Taken the news away from ukraine , putin will be laughing

Things have gone badly for the Russians in Ukraine over the last two weeks. The destruction of 2 (probably 3 now) Russuan brigades around Avdiivka in a futule Russian attack, losing ground around Bakhmut and the Zaporizhzhia Saliant and an attack by Ukraine across the Dinipro. Also the Ukrainian deployment of ACTMS missiles and Drone bombers to destroy large chunks of military stuff behind the lines.
Not good news for Pootin at all. He'll be glad of the media concentration on other matters.

 

[Ducado]

So much so that many Palestinian's want it to be forgotten and to continue Hiters pogrom. Hamas, Hezbolah and the current Iranian leadeeship for sure.
Many of those who support extreme Palestinian groups won't think that will happen but if they win, it will. Absolutely guaranteed. The actions of Hamas last week are proof of that.

There are going to be extremists, of course there are, but I would wager that the vast majority of Palestinians just want a place they can live in peace and get on with their lives, would you deny them that?

What has happened to the Jewish people over the last two thousand years is absolutely no excuse to mistreat the Palestinians the way they have been, or do you think it gives them the green light because other have done the same to them? If you read what is happening on the West Bank on a daily basis, it's absolutely horrific and has increased under this far right government