Middle East Conflict

cucumberman said:
Palestine wasn’t barren land in the late 1800s. The Palestinians, and this was the major Arab with Jews minority, were building from libraries to schools, from the modern train and railway by Chemin Ottoman and then Deutsche bank in the 1890s, to the mediterranean and far east import/export trade.

Palestine is far from a worthless land. Rather it is one of the few land before B.C that had proper architecture and high population. Richard the Lionheart of the Crusades conquerors and Salah ad-Din of having controlled Palestine were agreeing peace treaty. But even prior to King Richard, and any Byzatine attacks, the Palestine managed by Salah ad-Din was in favour of the Palestine Arabs, Palestine Christians and Palestine Jew as a harmonised community, no major issues against one of the Abrahamic religions.
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Yes, upon reflection worthless was an injudicious choice of word, even if caveated with ‘relatively‘ but the land in neither fertile nor replete with natural resources, my point being that if human beings will argue over such territory what will it be like elsewhere when resources such as water start to diminish.

Not sure your history lesson, as enlightening as it was, takes my point anywhere tbh.
 
Just read an article on the BBC about how Hamas are weaponising sex, or rape to be frank. It's the hardest thing I've read in a long time, please be aware before you look at it that even the usual earnings don't do it justice.

There are a few Palestine flags in windows that I see on the walk to school with the kids, up to now I've always rationalised it as deeper than just one attack, certainly not one sided and very historical. But I'm finding it hard to be 'ok' with such public shows of support in light of the news we are getting every day out of this, especially as a few are houses belonging to families I know and chat with.
 
bluetonium said:
Just read an article on the BBC about how Hamas are weaponising sex, or rape to be frank. It's the hardest thing I've read in a long time, please be aware before you look at it that even the usual earnings don't do it justice.

There are a few Palestine flags in windows that I see on the walk to school with the kids, up to now I've always rationalised it as deeper than just one attack, certainly not one sided and very historical. But I'm finding it hard to be 'ok' with such public shows of support in light of the news we are getting every day out of this, especially as a few are houses belonging to families I know and chat with.
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What would your response be if there were Israeli flags in the window?
 
The blue phantom said:
What would your response be if there were Israeli flags in the window?
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Probably similar, I would hope, although I do confess I have Jewish connections and I'm sure they're displaying Israeli flags. It's not the fact they're Palestinian flags or families, please understand, it's the open show of support for one side in a conflict where every day we see heartbreaking stories.

I try to separate it in my head, as the post above says not everyone is connected to or responsible for, or supporting in any way, Hamas, but it's still a bit uncomfortable to me to be showing open support for one side when the other has also been so badly treated. Maybe it's because I'm not personally connected to the conflict or the region, but I find it depressing that the first reaction of some to humans causing suffering to other humans is to justify it, in whatever capacity, or at least turn away from the full picture. It's not as simple as one side or the other.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This topic shows us all why humanity is fucked.

A group of people were given some land, because of a terrible injustice they’d suffered. In accordance with what they’d suffered for centuries. That land was located somewhere they were historically connected to. It wasn’t at all fertile, and it was sparsely populated; but because of that injustice, nobody really thought about the indigenous people. They were not a core consideration.

And then when the land was given to these people, that group weren’t at all welcome in that region, and nor were they especially nice to their neighbours.

Everyone was cunty to each other.

The following few decades were marked by incredibly grotesque brutality. On both sides.

Two genuine victims in all that. And they were still fucking horrible to each other.

Over relatively worthless land.

Think what it will be like when real resources are diminishing.

We are completely fucked as a species.

We are all too entitled.

Myself included. I am very much part of the problem.

We are wired wrong.
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It's not that we're wired wrong, just that our intelligence has dramatically and rapidly superceded our primitive physiological drives that evolved to keep us alive in a supremely hostile world.

It wasn't so long ago that having a penchant for violence and a physique to administer it was a pretty sort after trait if you lived in a small village that needed defending, especially against the neighbouring village that liked to spring the odd attack.

Unfortunately, were in an evolutionary lag from which it's impossible to catch up. So, yes, we're fucked as a species.
 
bluetonium said:
Probably similar, I would hope, although I do confess I have Jewish connections and I'm sure they're displaying Israeli flags. It's not the fact they're Palestinian flags or families, please understand, it's the open show of support for one side in a conflict where every day we see heartbreaking stories.

I try to separate it in my head, as the post above says not everyone is connected to or responsible for, or supporting in any way, Hamas, but it's still a bit uncomfortable to me to be showing open support for one side when the other has also been so badly treated. Maybe it's because I'm not personally connected to the conflict or the region, but I find it depressing that the first reaction of some to humans causing suffering to other humans is to justify it, in whatever capacity, or at least turn away from the full picture. It's not as simple as one side or the other.
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As long as you ask a pro-Israeli supporter to condemn the deaths of 5,000 children as much as you ask a pro-Palestine supporter to condemn Hamas’ actions then you’re conscious should be straight.
 
bluetonium said:
Just read an article on the BBC about how Hamas are weaponising sex, or rape to be frank. It's the hardest thing I've read in a long time, please be aware before you look at it that even the usual earnings don't do it justice.

There are a few Palestine flags in windows that I see on the walk to school with the kids, up to now I've always rationalised it as deeper than just one attack, certainly not one sided and very historical. But I'm finding it hard to be 'ok' with such public shows of support in light of the news we are getting every day out of this, especially as a few are houses belonging to families I know and chat with.
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Unbearable even to try to watch/listen to the accounts of what happened.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Yes, upon reflection worthless was an injudicious choice of word, even if caveated with ‘relatively‘ but the land in neither fertile nor replete with natural resources, my point being that if human beings will argue over such territory what will it be like elsewhere when resources such as water start to diminish.

Not sure your history lesson, as enlightening as it was, takes my point anywhere tbh.
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And what was your point? That better (and better-financed) agricultural practices justify taking over someone else's land?
 
bluetonium said:
Just read an article on the BBC about how Hamas are weaponising sex, or rape to be frank. It's the hardest thing I've read in a long time, please be aware before you look at it that even the usual earnings don't do it justice.

There are a few Palestine flags in windows that I see on the walk to school with the kids, up to now I've always rationalised it as deeper than just one attack, certainly not one sided and very historical. But I'm finding it hard to be 'ok' with such public shows of support in light of the news we are getting every day out of this, especially as a few are houses belonging to families I know and chat with.
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How many national flags do not have some horror story played out under that flag?


www.awazthevoice.in

When British soldiers raped women of a town to suppress Indian nationalism

www.awazthevoice.in www.awazthevoice.in

I'm not sure any of that should make anyone feel any better about Hamas atrocities. See:
www.theguardian.com

Whatever your view of the Israel-Hamas war, rape is rape. To trivialise it is to diminish ourselves | Gaby Hinsliff

This isn’t some ghoulish competition, where any empathy shown to dead Israelis leaves less available for Palestinians, says Guardian columnist Gaby Hinsliff
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
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