PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

[halfcenturyup]

I agree with a lot of what you say, and in a sense what I'm about to say is not aimed at you in particular, it is just a thought that I have been having more and more recently.

I have been working on the assumption that we will be cleared of the most serious charges for reasons discussed at length in this thread.

However the thought that if/when that happens the red-tops and their client journalists will just accept it and go away seems to me to be completely pie in the sky. For as long as the rags, dippers and (to a much lesser extent) Arse and Spuds have friends in the media, we will continue to be hounded, our club belittled, our achievements denigrated.

The cloud, as you put it, that is currently hanging over us will, in other words, be replaced by another one, as sure as eggs are eggs. I don't know what the next cloud will be. If the PL case goes our way, as many of us expect, we might well see a rehash of the 'they got off on a technicality' stance that belittles/ignores the number of times CAS said 'no evidence.' We might see innuendo that we have bought the result. It might be something else completely. But the red-tops will not go away. They know that every small boy who starts supporting City is a future supporter of theirs - and therefore a potential source of income - that they have lost, and so they will keep on going in their attempt to make us the most unpopular club in the league. They can't make us unsuccessful on the pitch. But they can try and make us unpopular off it.

So the way this ends is not that the PL panel acquit us of everything and the anti-City narrative stops. The way this ends is that the media begins to be populated more and more by those who don't remember the glory days of the class of 92 and that magical night in Barcelona, whose formative years featured the Agueroooo goal, the formidables, the real treble winners, the centurions and so forth. (I remember a time when we complained we had no voices in punditland. These days we do. We regularly see Micah Richards, Joleon Lescott and Shay Given in the media, not to mention Steph Houghton, Jill Scott and izzy Christiansen. That progression will keep going.)

Alternatively, at some point Pep leaves, his replacement is markedly less successful than he is and normal service, as the red tops would have it, is resumed. We stop being a target, in other words, when we stop being such a threat.

Either way, the dirty tricks campaign is likely to continue for many years to come. And make no mistake, the red tops are behind it.

So my advice, and I repeat that this is a reply to you without being aimed at you necessarily, is to buckle down, and get used to that cloud hanging over your head. It's not going away any time soon, and when it does it will just be replaced by another.

And reflect on the fact that as dark as that cloud may seem, that is simply a reflection of the beautiful winning football we see week in week out on the pitch, and the extent to which our success hurts the red-tops to their very core.

Word

 

[There is a Light]

Get up stand up, stand up for your right, get up stand up, don't give up the fight...

Perfect words, love it

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Everything I said is my opinion. My interpretation of Khaldoons words, that he will "take the pinch", is that he won't a second time.
My opinion.
My mistake was not reading who posted the post I originally replied to;-)
As its Friday night and early doors starts at 5 I will leave it there, can't waste time on here when there is a few pints to be had.

This would be the second pinch though as we accepted the CAS appeal without disputing the verdict for the first pinch after his words in 2014.

Have a good evening anyway. Far better than discussing hypothetical outcomes!

 

[Newman Noggs]

I agree with a lot of what you say, and in a sense what I'm about to say is not aimed at you in particular, it is just a thought that I have been having more and more recently.

I have been working on the assumption that we will be cleared of the most serious charges for reasons discussed at length in this thread.

However the thought that if/when that happens the red-tops and their client journalists will just accept it and go away seems to me to be completely pie in the sky. For as long as the rags, dippers and (to a much lesser extent) Arse and Spuds have friends in the media, we will continue to be hounded, our club belittled, our achievements denigrated.

The cloud, as you put it, that is currently hanging over us will, in other words, be replaced by another one, as sure as eggs are eggs. I don't know what the next cloud will be. If the PL case goes our way, as many of us expect, we might well see a rehash of the 'they got off on a technicality' stance that belittles/ignores the number of times CAS said 'no evidence.' We might see innuendo that we have bought the result. It might be something else completely. But the red-tops will not go away. They know that every small boy who starts supporting City is a future supporter of theirs - and therefore a potential source of income - that they have lost, and so they will keep on going in their attempt to make us the most unpopular club in the league. They can't make us unsuccessful on the pitch. But they can try and make us unpopular off it.

So the way this ends is not that the PL panel acquit us of everything and the anti-City narrative stops. The way this ends is that the media begins to be populated more and more by those who don't remember the glory days of the class of 92 and that magical night in Barcelona, whose formative years featured the Agueroooo goal, the formidables, the real treble winners, the centurions and so forth. (I remember a time when we complained we had no voices in punditland. These days we do. We regularly see Micah Richards, Joleon Lescott and Shay Given in the media, not to mention Steph Houghton, Jill Scott and izzy Christiansen. That progression will keep going.)

Alternatively, at some point Pep leaves, his replacement is markedly less successful than he is and normal service, as the red tops would have it, is resumed. We stop being a target, in other words, when we stop being such a threat.

Either way, the dirty tricks campaign is likely to continue for many years to come. And make no mistake, the red tops are behind it.

So my advice, and I repeat that this is a reply to you without being aimed at you necessarily, is to buckle down, and get used to that cloud hanging over your head. It's not going away any time soon, and when it does it will just be replaced by another.

And reflect on the fact that as dark as that cloud may seem, that is simply a reflection of the beautiful winning football we see week in week out on the pitch, and the extent to which our success hurts the red-tops to their very core.

I think this is right with the caveat that, if we do beat the PL, the media will have to be a lot more careful with their words as they'll, no longer, be able to make their insinuations based on the 115 charges. That alone will be an improvement.

 

[Protein Junkie]

IC will have to write a full and unambiguous judgement stating that they have not found us guilty of any of the charges.

I would prefer the wording “found not guilty of all charges”.
Sorry if it reads as pedantic but there’s actually a big difference.

 

[freshie]

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Before it gets retracted ;-)

This doesn't surprise me. Ratclliffe would not have appointed Berrada (who handled our sponsorships) if there was anything serious against City. He would have done a lot of due diligence. I also think Ratcliffe may be trying to distance himself from the previous regime at United, especially Woodward and Gill who were more fixated on undermining City than they were in driving United forward. You can also be pretty sure that Ratcliffe knows how weak the evidence is against City because the previous Directors at MUFC were in the loop with Masters. I would not be surprised if Masters was cut loose from his role at the PL sooner rather than later.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

Just to add that I know @Manchester33 outside of this forum and he’s 100% genuine. While I wouldn’t want to go cracking open the champagne until such a time as the verdict is announced and it’s gone our way, this is now 2 totally different sources in the space of a little over 24 hours hinting at the same thing.

Plus Cheesman's random Facebook post a few weeks back.

 

[christopp]

A Rag mate… best ignoring -:)

Haha one that can be trusted it seems

 

[SouthStandStander]

Plus Cheesman's random Facebook post a few weeks back.

What post?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Plus Cheesman's random Facebook post a few weeks back.

What was that?

 

[Pablo ZZZ Peroni]

Just checked it and it was 2014 after we were fined and the squad reduced by UEFA.

He's done everything possible to prove our innocence. We took the CAS verdict with good grace, despite the fine for non-cooperation.

Therefore we have a precedent as to what we will accept and what we won’t.

None of us know for sure what the outcome will be and how City will react to a partial victory.

Saying there is no chance that we’d accept a fine for non-cooperation isn’t true though. We might or might not.

All we have is our own opinions. None are wrong at the moment anyway!

I've not read every post but are you talking about the "rather spend the 30 million" quote here? If so, the chronology is as below but, of course, we didn't find out about the quote until the original DS leaks.


Simon Cliff said in an email sent at at the end of April 2014: "Khaldoon said he would rather spend 30 million on the 50 best lawyers in the world to sue them for the next 10 years." The football association, according to the email, now had the possibility "to avoid the destruction of their rules and organization."

Khaldoon was talking figuratively. We settled with UEFA the following month in May 2014 so he didn't the need the 50 best lawyers etc,

So, we took the pinch. We were happy with the settlement. It was paradoxically a good deal for us (according to prestwichblue and I agree with him).

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I've not read every post but are you talking about the "rather spend the 30 million" quote here? If so, the chronology is as below but, of course, we didn't find out about the quote until the original DS leaks.


Simon Cliff said in an email sent at at the end of April 2014: "Khaldoon said he would rather spend 30 million on the 50 best lawyers in the world to sue them for the next 10 years." The football association, according to the email, now had the possibility "to avoid the destruction of their rules and organization."

Khaldoon was talking figuratively. We settled with UEFA the following month in May 2014 so he didn't the need the 50 best lawyers etc,

So, we took the pinch. We were happy with the settlement. It was paradoxically a good deal for us (according to prestwichblue and I agree with him).

Yeah and my reasoning would be that if we were fined for non-cooperation again, we might be happy with that settlement again as it concludes the process and it can be put to bed.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

You may well be right. We just don’t have the info to know anything for sure.

We don't have concrete information. But this forum is a great crowdsourcing tool because a lot of people on it have connections with the club and other sources within football and politics and get titbits of information from time to time. When you add all these titbits up you can see the bigger picture.
This forum called the Uefa investigation right most of the time and also the CAS decision. There are always a few rabbit holes but I trust the information on this forum more than any other football media source when it comes to City. It is required reading for most of the football media, some of whom made fools of themselves with their coverage of CAS.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

We all witnessed after CAS found no evidence to substantiate any charges that our failure to cooperate fully still rendered us cheats and still does to this day.

There is no fucking way that City will be accepting a failure to cooperate charge this time.

I'd hope that we get a different result from CAS. I can see why City were fined, as they had openly stopped cooperating, and with CAS saying that the evidence they provided eventually may even have seen UEFA dropping the case, it's essentially a warning not to waste CAS's time.

If City are arguing that they've always cooperated here, then surely there's more hope that the bar for non-cooperation isn't met.

To is is my take. There’s no sense we haven’t handed anything over. More h to at what may be being asked for is excessive and unreasonable

 

[StillBluessinceHydeRoad]

I'm puzzled over the charges related to non-cooperation. CAS concluded that we had cooperated fully with CAS after lodging our appeal but that, had we cooperated fully with UEFA before and after the alleged leaks UEFA would have dropped the charges. In the present proceedings City claim to have provided them with a large body of irrefutable evidence - presumably the evidence put before CAS which proved that the charges laid by UEFA were false. Now, the PL charges seem to go over the same ground as UEFA's and therefore City's evidence would appear to be truly irrefutable UNLESS the PL have compelling NEW evidence. We'll never know, but if the charges are to collapse the PL may defend itself by arguing - in an attempt to fend off an independent regulator - that it was City's awkwardness that made it such a "difficult" and "complicated" case. Whether that would satisfy H M government seems unlikely. What Khaldoon would make of it.... Or whether Masters will just say, "I'm off. Get your independent regulator in and let him sort those red bastards out."

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

If the PL case is weak enough for them to accept they have no realistic chance of winning then, if I was Masters, I’d be throwing the towel in asap. No examination of the evidence (or lack of it) by the IC would give the PL the opportunity to blur the narrative along the lines of ‘being unable to reach the required threshold’, despite best efforts’, ‘difficult to compile evidence’ etc etc. All of which could be presented in a way that doesn’t clearly exonerate us and leaves the way open for continued negative media coverage. Would be interesting to see how the club reacted to that outcome.

Hopefully by suing the fuck out of everyone

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Agreed. On a positive note though I think it is clear that senior people in Government (and the Opposition) know precisely what is going on within the leadership of the PL and its special relationships with certain clubs and this will ultimately work in City's favour. The UK media has been destroyed by a clickbait culture ane there is virtually no chance of impartial coverage on any issue. This is a much wider problem for society than what has happened to our club.

I sense the tide is turning a bit. Boiled bollock on talkshite was delivering another puff piece about United tthis morning and commented that the texts and calls were all saying stop being talk man United. If the audience changes the narrative will too

 

[Manchester_lalala]

We don't have concrete information. But this forum is a great crowdsourcing tool because a lot of people on it have connections with the club and other sources within football and politics and get titbits of information from time to time. When you add all these titbits up you can see the bigger picture.
This forum called the Uefa investigation right most of the time and also the CAS decision. There are always a few rabbit holes but I trust the information on this forum more than any other football media source when it comes to City. It is required reading for most of the football media, some of whom made fools of themselves with their coverage of CAS.

A few posters on here have always been consistent of either their knowledge or direct links to City. When these allegations were released by the prem, this forum shat its knickers and it was like it for a good 24 hours. A few of the people who predicted the CAS verdict right spoke up and soon eased everyone’s minds.

All you’ve got to think is how are the premier league going to have evidence that counters City’s accounts and witness statements from several of their sponsors executives. It will require a whistleblower to convince three judges, but we all know that’s not going to happen.

 

[I'm Blue]

Personally I would like all of them dropped

Personally I’d like them all shot!