General Election - 4th July 2024

[BobKowalski]

My apologies you could just be that daft I guess:-)

Or indeed, the ‘daftness’. Either will do.

 

[BobKowalski]

Never said they couldn't, never said it once, I'm going with daft definitely.

Again, be specific.

 

[hilts]

Again, be specific.

Last time here we go

What are the chances of that guy/girl changing the outcome of the general election and forcing the Tories back into power if he votes say lib dem over Labour.

Let's see how honest you are with that answer.

 

[inbetween]

And if enough people followed this chain of thought, then Labour would not win. To actually win an election it does require people to vote Labour. That’s kind of how elections work in case you were hazy on the process.

It doesn't really work like that though in reality. If 5 people vote Labour and 6 people don't then Labour can still win comfortably in our system.

Add the Reform vote to the Tory vote in the polls for example and Labour aren't so far ahead. If this election was fought on issues and the popular vote alone then it's clear that the country is still hopelessly divided.

To win Labour just need to win the seats that they were always going to win. They then need the Tory vote to divide (which it is) and that's how they will win their majority. They won't win it on votes.

To outright win against a united Tory/right vote Labour has always needed Scotland and that was lost long ago.

 

[hilts]

It doesn't really work like that though in reality. If 5 people vote Labour and 6 people don't then Labour can still win comfortably in our system.

Add the Reform vote to the Tory vote in the polls for example and Labour aren't so far ahead. If this election was fought on issues and the popular vote alone then it's clear that the country is still hopelessly divided.

To win Labour just need to win the seats that they were always going to win. They then need the Tory vote to divide (which it is) and that's how they will win their majority. They won't win it on votes.

To outright win against a united Tory/right vote Labour has always needed Scotland and that was lost long ago.

The bad thing about the large majority they will get is there will be no inclination to change the voting system. Self interest will screw us all. We could stop that type of Tory party ever getting in again.

 

[bluenova]

Well a poster did give 3 examples although I'm not sure 150 years is modern times and one didn't affect the result So kudos for that.

You just went full on dishonesty. But there you go.

Asking for specific examples is a surely a straw man. I don't believe anyone is actually arguing that elections are decided by single votes, but then I don't think that's your argument.

I may be wrong, but if I understand correctly, your argument is that because elections aren't won by single votes, an individual makes no difference? As a result individuals should vote however they want, without their being any moral reason for choosing the best option that has a chance of winning the seat.

The counter argument is not that elections ARE won by single votes, but that they are only ever won by individuals' votes.

 

[mosssideblue]

Are we there yet , time is dragging , want it over with. A big swing is needed here to get tories out but there has never been a chance like this before , hope the oldies stay at home

Not all oldies vote Tory

 

[BobKowalski]

Last time here we go

What are the chances of that guy/girl changing the outcome of the general election and forcing the Tories back into power if he votes say lib dem over Labour.

Let's see how honest you are with that answer.

“And we head over to the constituency of Toad-on-the-wold where the final tallies show Labour and Tories tied on 31,625 votes which was settled in the time honoured fashion of a coin toss and has just been won by the Tories giving them one seat over the line for a majority in Parliament! Sensational scenes! Limbs everywhere!!

Labour just needed one vote to flip from the Greens and here is that voter. Colin, you voted Green even though you were toying with Labour, but Starmer was mean to Jeremy and you wanted to stick to your principles. How do you feel, Colin?”

“Well, disappointed that Labour didn’t get over the line and that my one vote sank them, but proud, Laura, because I voted my conscience.”

“Thank you, Colin. Now back to the studio.”

 

[hilts]

“And we head over to the constituency of Toad-on-the-wold where the final tallies show Labour and Tories tied on 31,625 votes which was settled in the time honoured fashion of a coin toss and has just been won by the Tories giving them one seat over the line for a majority in Parliament! Sensational scenes! Limbs everywhere!!

Labour just needed one vote to flip from the Greens and here is that voter. Colin, you voted Green even though you were toying with Labour, but Starmer was mean to Jeremy and you wanted to stick to your principles. How do you feel, Colin?”

“Well, disappointed that Labour didn’t get over the line and that my one vote sank them, but proud, Laura, because I voted my conscience.”

“Thank you, Colin. Now back to the studio.”

Yeah no answer to the chances as expected, move on I think it's definitely dishonesty with you so i won't be bothering.

 

[hilts]

Asking for specific examples is a surely a straw man. I don't believe anyone is actually arguing that elections are decided by single votes, but then I don't think that's your argument.

I may be wrong, but if I understand correctly, your argument is that because elections aren't won by single votes, an individual makes no difference? As a result individuals should vote however they want, without their being any moral reason for choosing the best option that has a chance of winning the seat.

The counter argument is not that elections ARE won by single votes, but that they are only ever won by individuals' votes.

Sorry you are looking far too deeply into it, basically the poster can vote however they want and they can be as sure as sure can be that he isn't gonna be responsible for letting the Tories in. Its that simple really.

Personally I couldn't vote for Starmer he has shown he doesn't care much for the public, was a disgrace on palenstine. We are getting him anyhow I will just vote for the party I believe in most.

 

[bluenova]

Sorry you are looking far too deeply into it, basically the poster can vote however they want and they can be as sure as sure can be that he isn't gonna be responsible for letting the Tories in. Its that simple really.

Personally I couldn't vote for Starmer he has shown he doesn't care much for the public, was a disgrace on palenstine. We are getting him anyhow I will just vote for the party I believe in most.

I disagree.

I understand that's your argument, but I believe that you do have some responsibility for letting the Tories in.

 

[hilts]

I disagree.

I understand that's your argument, but I believe that you do have some responsibility for letting the Tories in.

So the whole population should vote Labour, in fact why not only have 2 parties.

We will never agree mainly because you are trying your best not to. I will personally be voting Green and getting Labour, thats just the way it is. No problems, can we leave it there please.

 

[BobKowalski]

Yeah no answer to the chances as expected, move on I think it's definitely dishonesty with you so i won't be bothering.

I outlined a scenario in which a single vote determined the outcome of a General Election. You can argue the scenario is improbable, even wildly improbable, but you cannot state it is impossible, and on that basis I’m afraid you lose.

 

[hilts]

I outlined a scenario in which a single vote determined the outcome of a General Election. You can argue the scenario is improbable, even wildly improbable, but you cannot state it is impossible, and on that basis I’m afraid you lose.

Hence as sure as sure can be sorry you lose. Improbable haha fuckin hell, never ever be a bookie my friend:-)

Anyhow come on the Dutch.

 

[bluethrunthru]

white flag raised

 

[Vic]

Interesting poll. There has been some debate on the Greens attracting soft Tory voters and establishing themselves in traditional Tory suburbs - especially those who are comfy with LibDems. Not sure this will plan out in July, but it will be interesting to see if there are any Green trends.

In a poll paid for by the Green Party...

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Sorry you are looking far too deeply into it, basically the poster can vote however they want and they can be as sure as sure can be that he isn't gonna be responsible for letting the Tories in. Its that simple really.

Personally I couldn't vote for Starmer he has shown he doesn't care much for the public, was a disgrace on palenstine. We are getting him anyhow I will just vote for the party I believe in most.

I agree with you in the sense that in an ideal world this is the way it should be.

The problem is that the electorate is a bit traumatised. Every election we generally have about 60% voting for left wing parties and 40% voting for right wing parties. And yet we’ve had 33 years out of the last 45 under the Conservatives.

The thing is that your philosophy works well if everybody abides by it and votes in good faith. But if there is a big enough contingent whose sole mission is to prevent your philosophy from working, then the other options will quite literally never get in government again. A big enough group of people can just exist to block the will of those voting in good faith.

That’s similar, (though not exactly the same) as what we’ve had and is the reason why people won’t do what you suggest.

 

[Vic]

So a thread about elections has been derailed by people who don't see the point in voting in elections... but feel the need to come on the thread trying to stir up apathy.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

So a thread about erections has been derailed by people who don't see the point in erections... but feel the need to come on the thread trying to stir up apathy.

It's like Lesbians turning the bathhouse into a relaxation room.

 

[The blue phantom]

Was just looking at the odds for Jezza in Islington. He was 1/4 the other week. Now him and Labour are pratically evens each. Was watching a video of Owen Jones in his constituency, Feeling is some folk don't even know he's left Labour and could just tick the Labour box.