EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
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Chippy_boy said:
Well, I am undecided.

Reasons not to leave are that if we do leave, the markets will be in the doldrums for years and with it my investments and pension. We'll be back into recession and staying in recession. There's no way on planet earth we are negotiating any kind of trade agreement within less than 5 years and probably 10. Many major employers will decamp, unemployment will rise.

Other than that, it'll be marvellous.
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You're as undecided as Ealing and Cameron.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Now that's where I disagree with you. Ever closer union is far from inevitable, and in fact you could even argue that it's unlikely. If the Euro fails - and I think it's 50-50 at the moment as to whether that will happen - then the EU will change radically. The whole "project" - which at it's core has been all about full political and economic union; the creation of a federal United States of Europe - will be destroyed. The EU will have to reinvent itself and probably into a form that the UK would find eminently more in line with what we want, i.e. a collaboration amongst sovereign states to freely trade amongst themselves. if the Euro goes, the very raison d'etre for most of the things we loathe about the EU, goes away with it.
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Too much political capital has been invested in the euro project, whom can you honestly see saying lets sit down and try and disentangle this currency? It would lead to a market melt down of bed bloc all proportions and the largest flight of capital known in the history of monetary transfers. A choice between this or by drip feeding ever closer union in my eyes seems the more logical outcome.

Don't worry about your investments as you can take out some relatively cheap 'short' trades or etfs in the market which will act as a good hedge for you.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Now that's where I disagree with you. Ever closer union is far from inevitable, and in fact you could even argue that it's unlikely. If the Euro fails - and I think it's 50-50 at the moment as to whether that will happen - then the EU will change radically. The whole "project" - which at it's core has been all about full political and economic union; the creation of a federal United States of Europe - will be destroyed. The EU will have to reinvent itself and probably into a form that the UK would find eminently more in line with what we want, i.e. a collaboration amongst sovereign states to freely trade amongst themselves. if the Euro goes, the very raison d'etre for most of the things we loathe about the EU, goes away with it.
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"Ever closer union" is inevitable. "Union" will never happen.
 
Hi everyone. I am new at this forum, and haven't seen a presentation thread, so hello everyone.
Now, as a hispaniard, I don't know exactly the specifics. EU is not a organization that you are in or out, but more like a condensation of treaties, be it comercial, political, fiscal, monetary, educative...

So my question is: the political parties that support the exit of uk from EU, what degree of "cut" they want?
 
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Chippy_boy said:
Well, I am undecided.

Reasons not to leave are that if we do leave, the markets will be in the doldrums for years and with it my investments and pension. We'll be back into recession and staying in recession. There's no way on planet earth we are negotiating any kind of trade agreement within less than 5 years and probably 10. Many major employers will decamp, unemployment will rise.

Other than that, it'll be marvellous.
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Trade agreements for what. Are your investments and pensions all in the arms trade? Trade agreements are like unicorns ....
 
SWP's back said:
You're as undecided as Ealing and Cameron.
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angela-merkel-in-kezban-oldu%C4%9Fu-ger%C3%A7e%C4%9Fi_357103.jpg
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Who has room in life for indecision , never met a happy and indicisive person in my life
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I agree with that Ealing and you've nailed your colours to the mast. No issue with it at all.

The guy I quoted however is being fairly disingenuous saying he's undecided.
 
SWP's back said:
I agree with that Ealing and you've nailed your colours to the mast. No issue with it at all.

The guy I quoted however is being fairly disingenuous saying he's undecided.
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I think he is undecided as there are things he wants to reform about the UK and Europe but knows that self inflicted damage will be done by brexit and he isn't keen for that pain.

I thought of myself as undecided earlier on as I still believe the UK has huge problems in or out but when it comes to it I am an internationalist
 
EalingBlue2 said:
I think he is undecided as there are things he wants to reform about the UK and Europe but knows that self inflicted damage will be done by brexit and he isn't keen for that pain.

I thought of myself as undecided earlier on as I still believe the UK has huge problems in or out but when it comes to it I am an internationalist
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You don't have to be in favour of a outdated customs union to be an internationalist. In fact it seems like a contradiction to me, because the internationalist has a global outlook.
 
AlgarveBlu said:
Too much political capital has been invested in the euro project, whom can you honestly see saying lets sit down and try and disentangle this currency? It would lead to a market melt down of bed bloc all proportions and the largest flight of capital known in the history of monetary transfers. A choice between this or by drip feeding ever closer union in my eyes seems the more logical outcome.

Don't worry about your investments as you can take out some relatively cheap 'short' trades or etfs in the market which will act as a good hedge for you.
Click to expand...
Hi Algarve, and sorry chippy for piggyback, I'm planning on retiring in 2 years and moving to tavira. What's the feeling down your parts on how a brexit would effect that plan in terms of free movement, medical, pension payments, residentcy etc? I'm thinking my timing might not be good!
 
EalingBlue2 said:
I think he is undecided as there are things he wants to reform about the UK and Europe but knows that self inflicted damage will be done by brexit and he isn't keen for that pain.

I thought of myself as undecided earlier on as I still believe the UK has huge problems in or out but when it comes to it I am an internationalist
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Spot on mate.

For me, we've got ourselves into a shit situation one way or another, and we now face some very unappealing options. Staying on the periphery whilst the other lot treat us like 2nd class members and race ahead doing things without us and not in our best interests, is crap. Getting fully on board the Euro train is crap... and we've ruled out joining the Euro anyway. And it could all go tits up anyway anyway, which would also be crap.

On the other hand, if we leave, we'll be in recession for 5+ years, maybe 10 and I can kiss goodbye to any hope of a moderately comfortable retirement in 12 years the when I am 67.

Do I want pins in my eyes or a knitting needle through my bollocks? Hmmmmm, forgive me for not being too keen on either. Any impression I may have given about wanting to stay in, reflects in part how my mood has been swinging around, but more so, is simply in response to the dreamers who think it will all be marvellous if we leave. Such views are deeply in need of a reality check!
 
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Chippy_boy said:
Spot on mate.

For me, we've got ourselves into a shit situation one way or another, and we now face some very unappealing options. Staying on the periphery whilst the other lot treat us like 2nd class members and race ahead doing things without us and not in our best interests, is crap. Getting fully on board the Euro train is crap... and we've ruled out joining the Euro anyway. And it could all go tit's up anyway, which would also be crap.

On the other hand, if we leave, we'll be in recession for 5+ years, maybe 10 and I can kiss goodbye to any hope of a moderately comfortable retirement in 12 years the when I am 67.

Do I want pins in my eyes or a knitting needle through my bollocks? Hmmmmm, forgive me for not being too keen on either.
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The case for Remain in a nutshell. The prison door has been opened and the prisoner is sat there saying 'it's a bit shit in here and I've lost my freedom, but at least I get fed three times a day'. What a depressing prospect that this argument is likely to win the day.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Spot on mate.

For me, we've got ourselves into a shit situation one way or another, and we now face some very unappealing options. Staying on the periphery whilst the other lot treat us like 2nd class members and race ahead doing things without us and not in our best interests, is crap. Getting fully on board the Euro train is crap... and we've ruled out joining the Euro anyway. And it could all go tits up anyway anyway, which would also be crap.

On the other hand, if we leave, we'll be in recession for 5+ years, maybe 10 and I can kiss goodbye to any hope of a moderately comfortable retirement in 12 years the when I am 67.

Do I want pins in my eyes or a knitting needle through my bollocks? Hmmmmm, forgive me for not being too keen on either. Any impression I may have given about wanting to stay in, reflects in part how my mood has been swinging around, but more so, is simply in response to the dreamers who think it will all be marvellous if we leave. Such views are deeply in need of a reality check!
Click to expand...

Fuck me! Mystic meg lives.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Spot on mate.

For me, we've got ourselves into a shit situation one way or another, and we now face some very unappealing options. Staying on the periphery whilst the other lot treat us like 2nd class members and race ahead doing things without us and not in our best interests, is crap. Getting fully on board the Euro train is crap... and we've ruled out joining the Euro anyway. And it could all go tits up anyway anyway, which would also be crap.

On the other hand, if we leave, we'll be in recession for 5+ years, maybe 10 and I can kiss goodbye to any hope of a moderately comfortable retirement in 12 years the when I am 67.

Do I want pins in my eyes or a knitting needle through my bollocks? Hmmmmm, forgive me for not being too keen on either. Any impression I may have given about wanting to stay in, reflects in part how my mood has been swinging around, but more so, is simply in response to the dreamers who think it will all be marvellous if we leave. Such views are deeply in need of a reality check!
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You sound a bit like the top republican strategist who explained yesterday why he would vote Hillary not Donald , his comment was if faced with a choice of malaria or Ebola you have to choose Malaria as there is a very good chance you will survive and get better
 
hgblue said:
The case for Remain in a nutshell. The prison door has been opened and the prisoner is sat there saying 'it's a bit shit in here and I've lost my freedom, but at least I get fed three times a day'. What a depressing prospect that this argument is likely to win the day.
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It kind of depends what is outside the prison if you face re-arrest and greater punishment with the chance of being hunted down and shot or facing your victim, sitting still and being released a little later might very well be the best bet
 
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