Aguero's disallowed goal

[Gordyola]

Offside/onside is a matter of fact. My question is, is it the VAR(ref) to look at the lines an d judge or does the technology tell them?

The VAR draws the lines using the tech to help determine a decision.

IMHO when its so close the original real time ref decision should stand

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Offside/onside is a matter of fact. My question is, is it the VAR(ref) to look at the lines an d judge or does the technology tell them?

Ah, right. I see.
No idea.

I certainly wouldn't trust a broadcaster to put lines in the right place/timing - there have been examples in the past where different broadcasters come to different conclusions.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

The VAR draws the lines using the tech to help determine a decision.

IMHO when its so close the original real time ref decision should stand

Thanks. I agree that it falls under the 'clear and obvious error' concept for changing decisions.

 

[Henkeman]

Offside/onside is a matter of fact. My question is, is it the VAR(ref) to look at the lines an d judge or does the technology tell them?

In principle it is, but it relies entirely on when you judge the ball to have been passed, and the cameras aren't high speed ones. A tiny fraction of a second can make a huge difference when it's very close, and the freeze frame may not be the optimal point to judge. It's a limitation of the technology and I'm absolutely fine with that if the decision is made in the game that this is how we should accept it and just go with that. It's the pretence that the system as currently constituted decides it's a question of fact that I have a problem with, because it doesn't.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I thought the same. It looked a clear offside. Then that yellow line showed the guys heel played him level and they didn't then give it? Why?

Aguero's backside was offside, his boot wasn't. VAR needs a lot of work especially in the information provided with the decision to both TV viewers and to the crowd in the stadium.
They need to take lessons from cricket (the order in which things are done) and rugby (miking up the ref and video assistant). For example a foul is checked for before offside and overrides an offside decision (see Fernandonho penalty in Gelsenkirken).

 

[Blue Hefner]

In principle it is, but it relies entirely on when you judge the ball to have been passed, and the cameras aren't high speed ones. A tiny fraction of a second can make a huge difference when it's very close, and the freeze frame may not be the optimal point to judge. It's a limitation of the technology and I'm absolutely fine with that if the decision is made in the game that this is how we should accept it and just go with that. It's the pretence that the system as currently constituted decides it's a question of fact that I have a problem with, because it doesn't.

Gab Marcotti was on the TV or radio about a year ago and he said that the technology can determine when exactly the ball is kicked

 

[Henkeman]

Gab Marcotti was on the TV or radio about a year ago and he said that the technology can determine when exactly the ball is kicked

I'm willing to be corrected if so, but I've not seen UEFA or the FA make that claim, do you have more info?

 

[Rolee]

In principle it is, but it relies entirely on when you judge the ball to have been passed, and the cameras aren't high speed ones. A tiny fraction of a second can make a huge difference when it's very close, and the freeze frame may not be the optimal point to judge. It's a limitation of the technology and I'm absolutely fine with that if the decision is made in the game that this is how we should accept it and just go with that. It's the pretence that the system as currently constituted decides it's a question of fact that I have a problem with, because it doesn't.

The law states 'at the moment the ball is touched'.

 

[Gordyola]

Thanks. I agree that it falls under the 'clear and obvious error'.

The clear and obvious errors is not a criteria for offside all goals will be checked for offside, only if it is close is the ref informed that VAR is checking at which point he should indicate that VAR is in operation

The whole thing is a mess and this is FIFA's fault, they have allowed each association to configure VAR however they choose, this is the reason for the confusion amongst fans and broadcasters. FIFA should have set the standard of how VAR works when it is used, e.g. is there pitch-side monitors and when they should be used?

IMHO if VAR is used it should be in every game in a competition not like the mess we have had in the cups in England. I think most people want to see the VAR images in the stadium as they are being looked at and hear the communication between VAR and pitch referee. The offside images are not good enough the 2D line is draw yet the world is 3D What is needed is the ability to create virtual 3D images that the VAR can view using a head mounted display and some device in the ball that indicates when the ball is struck unfortunately neither is available quickly enough at the moment. So, in my view the VAR look at only clear and obvious errors for offside as well like the Liverpool goal v WHU that didn't need any high tech equipment.

Never want VAR and I agreed with Bill we want our game back

 

[Henkeman]

The law states 'at the moment the ball is touched'.

Sure, but what I'm saying is that the probability is that isn't at the point of the freeze frame, and that can make a huge difference. If @Blue Hefner is correct and the system doesn't rely on the freeze frame, that's different, hence willing to be corrected.