Coronavirus (2021) thread

[daveiw01]

This is utter bollox. Most drugs are still in clinical trials, even when approved for many years.

Oh, so it's not still in trials then?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

they are entitled to their choices where their bodies are concerned

Sure, and other people are entitled to point out that those choices are selfish, and to impose restrictions on them to limit the dangers their selfish choices have on others.

Just like you're not allowed to smoke in confined public spaces because it endangers others.

 

[daveiw01]

The fact that most have also refused to ware masks when mandated says it all about their selfish nature.
Bottom line: The "Right to life" trumps the "Right to infect anyone I meet"

One of the problems with this statement is that, as you will know, vaccinated people are still infectious.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Oh, so it's not still in trials then?

Try reading what I wrote.

@Octavian have you a much more chunkier explanation earlier, but you paid no attention to that either.

 

[Dage]

Sorry, but your 'guess' is ridiculous, especially given that you went on about what iffery a few posts up.

It's not and I declare my guesses as guesses and don't pretend them to bed the truth like you.

In fact, there are only few better researched medicines/vaccines in the world currently. It is safe and it's working. Deal with it.

A lot of people would die of COVID, if not for the measures to control the virus.

You want your position to be perceived equally in the discussion but are ignoring reality and facts. It's an imposition for the educated and facts orientated majority of the people who yet again face another harsh winter COVID season because of reality ignoring freaks.

Bottom line: we probably have no other tool to discharge the NHS permanently then to make the vaccine obligatory.

 

[daveiw01]

Sure, and other people are entitled to point out that those choices are selfish, and to impose restrictions on them to limit the dangers their selfish choices have on others.

Just like you're not allowed to smoke in confined public spaces because it endangers others.

It's very very different to smoking ffs. I will ask again, still haven't had a genuine, reasoned answer from anyone as yet, though I suspect you'll just dismiss it as 'bollox'...

If we later learn that the vaccines cause serious problems in the medium to long term, how would *you* then feel given youre one of the people willing to force others to take them?

 

[daveiw01]

It's not and I declare my guesses as guesses and don't pretend them to bed the truth like you.

In fact, there are only few better researched medicines/vaccines in the world currently. It is safe and it's working. Deal with it.

A lot of people would die of COVID, if not for the measures to control the virus.

You want your position to be perceived equally in the discussion but are ignoring reality and facts. It's an imposition for the educated and facts orientated majority of the people who yet again face another harsh winter COVID season because of reality ignoring freaks.

Bottom line: we probably have no other tool to discharge the NHS permanently then to make the vaccine obligatory.

Truth? I suggest you re-read my post, I asked a question.

I think your need to call them freaks or idiots etc devalues your argument from the off, anyone that disagrees with you should not automatically be branded an idiot, or freak.

I'll say no more in this thread, as it seems to be getting us nowhere and I'm tired of arguing with the "But, it's for their own good!" brigade.

 

[hgblue]

Whilst I agree it is a person's choice to have or not have a vaccine. Someone who doesn't have it during a pandemic must accept that restrictions will have to apply to their lives till at least the end of the pandemic. Working in heath and care facilities for example.
The fact that most have also refused to ware masks when mandated says it all about their selfish nature.
Bottom line: The "Right to life" trumps the "Right to infect anyone I meet"

Not a particularly persuasive argument when the vaccinated can catch and spread covid and many of the health care workers have natural immunity from previously having covid. It could also be that losing ten of thousands of highly trained professionals will ultimately be much more dangerous to public health than retaining their services and introducing a daily testing regime instead.

 

[BlueAnorak]

One of the problems with this statement is that, as you will know, vaccinated people are still infectious.

No problem at all.
No vaccine is 100% effective.
Satistically a person who is double vaccinated is HALF as likely to pass it on as a someone who is double vaccinated and once treble vaccinated it's 10 times less likely.
You argument is somewhat disingenuous.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

If we later learn that the vaccines cause serious problems in the medium to long term, how would *you* then feel given youre one of the people willing to force others to take them?

Since loaded questions is the order of the day, how do you feel having deaths on your hands caused by the misunderstood you're spreading?

I'm not advocating forcing anyone, I'm saying that choices have consequences.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

Try reading what I wrote.

@Octavian have you a much more chunkier explanation earlier, but you paid no attention to that either.

When they cranks use the experimental term on the mRNA covid vaccines. This research has been in progress for years in building vaccines to fight ebola, this was modified to covid. It’s not a concept that was dreamed up 18 months ago. It’s going to advance our ability to win the fight against AIDS.

Vaccines do take time when there is no pandemic around and an infected pool of people to trial it on and governments willing to throw masses of cash and resources at the situation. 7 billion doses given, how much real world data do they need?

 

[roypaulknewmyfather]

ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous

Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultant

www.theguardian.com

Realise it’s from The Guardian but worth a read. I think it contains some interesting stuff

 

[hilts]

So is allowing the voluntary unvaccinated to fill up the hospital beds and take resources away from others. It's a difficult situation but in this particular case I'd be tempted to follow Austria's route.

I wouldn't force anyone to have a job I just wouldn't treat them or employ them.

 

[Dage]

If we later learn that the vaccines cause serious problems in the medium to long term, how would *you* then feel given youre one of the people willing to force others to take them?

That is impossible. How can a drug that has disappeared from your body for months can have repercussions on it? Can you name a single incident in the history of vaccines where a serious side effect appeared months after the jab?

See? This is the disconnection of reality, science and facts by anti-vacciners and therefore mandatory vaccine will come. Nobody wants another winter like last year's and this year's one.

 

[daveiw01]

Since loaded questions is the order of the day, how do you feel having deaths on your hands caused by the misunderstood you're spreading?

I'm not advocating forcing anyone, I'm saying that choices have consequences.

Misinformation, I assume? As it stands very few people die of covid19, having contracted it, I'm aware that any death is too many, but one way or another we will all die, eventually.

Anyway, I'm out of here, good day.

 

[CJH]

ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous

Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultant

www.theguardian.com

Realise it’s from The Guardian but worth a read. I think it contains some interesting stuff

Really think if you are unvaccinated and end up in hospital with covid, you should be charged for treatment.

 

[blueparrot]

Misinformation, I assume? As it stands very few people die of covid19, having contracted it, I'm aware that any death is too many, but one way or another we will all die, eventually.

Anyway, I'm out of here, good day.

Depends what your definition of very few is, I guess you must be one of the lucky few that have not has any deaths in your family or circle of friends / neighbours.

 

[Invisible Man's Bandage]

Really think if you are unvaccinated and end up in hospital with covid, you should be charged for treatment.

Will that principle be applied to smokers, fat bastards with heart problems etc?

I'm triple jabbed by the way.

 

[Dage]

This is from Germany's rising numbers. Red are unvaccinated, grey are vaccinated - not in total numbers but incidences in the respective group. Have in mind that they infected persons of the vaccine group are also dozen of times less likely to die or to be treated in hospital.

Bottom line: we wouldn't have much of a problem currently if all people were vaccinated. Mask mandates in close public places and supermarkets would most likely be enough to get over the winter comfortably.

 

[Octavian]

Thank you for taking the time to post a detailed, reasoned reply, for the most part.

I still strongly disagree with the 'selfish' part, they are entitled to their choices where their bodies are concerned and that is not up for debate in my book, nor should it ever be, in a civilised society.

We're taking the first steps down a very slippery slope.

Well I do not think it should be mandated and I agree it should be freedom of choice to not have a vaccine, I also agree the government forcing it is a slippery slope but whilst I do not think the government should force it, I still hold the opinion that those who use that freedom of choice not to get vaccinated, are selfish tossers that are prolonging the pandemic and it’s negative affects. The reason we do not have a million people out of work, we have food in the supermarkets etc. is because life has been able to continue because 80+% of people have had the jabs.

If we all behaved as those that have refused it do, we’d either be in lockdown or would have 1000+ a day deaths, as we did before the vaccines were available. We can live our lives now with freedom and there’s roughly 90% less deaths because of those of us who got double vaccinated and have taken our boosters. Those not doing it haven’t contributed.