Discuss Pellegrini

[Anonymous]

Rather than be expected to produce the best players through the youth set up, though this is possible, it may be used as a 'farm' , making a few million lets say on most young players that go through the system selling them on to lesser clubs. With this money and our increasing income from sales/partnerships etc
we can still buy the best from elsewhere and keep within Fair Play limits.

If our owners stay with us, in five years we could be watching the best players in the world and these will probably not have come through our system, no matter how much Pelli is involved.

That does not tally with statements made about how Mancini didn't pay enough (any) attention to the youth setup, never went to an EDS game, that Pellegrini would be a cog in the new holistic City promoting prospects from the EDS to the main squad. I really can't see many others on the verge. Pozo and Lopes might get the odd cup game but they'd have had that under Mancini. I was excited about the prospect of seeing more youth come through but I'd have to say the prospects appear downgraded over the past fortnight.

-- Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:31 am --

Even if they see Pellegrini as short/medium term we'll already potentially have his successor at the club overseeing future first team players, now that's vision. ;-)

As I said, my expectation is that Guardiola will be our next manager. I think he's in Munich learning English or something.

I think when the time is right Vieira will get the nod, he'll teach, nurture and bring through the talent ala Guardiola at Barca.

Depends on how he does with the EDS imo. I'm sure idealistically its something the owners/execs would love, but realistically it will depend on how he adapts to managing and how he nurtures the talent he gets given over the next few years.

 

[Skashion]

I think when the time is right Vieira will get the nod, he'll teach, nurture and bring through the talent ala Guardiola at Barca.

I'd be fairly happy with that. I even notioned it myself in February: <a class="postlink-local" href="http://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=277637&p=6476639&hilit=vieira#p6476639" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">viewtopic.php?f=1&t=277637&p=6476639&hilit=vieira#p6476639</a> However, from what I've gathered from a few people's info, is that it will be Guardiola.

 

[Danamy]

That does not tally with statements made about how Mancini didn't pay enough (any) attention to the youth setup, never went to an EDS game, that Pellegrini would be a cog in the new holistic City promoting prospects from the EDS to the main squad. I really can't see many others on the verge. Pozo and Lopes might get the odd cup game but they'd have had that under Mancini. I was excited about the prospect of seeing more youth come through but I'd have to say the prospects appear downgraded over the past fortnight.

-- Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:31 am --


As I said, my expectation is that Guardiola will be our next manager. I think he's in Munich learning English or something.

I think when the time is right Vieira will get the nod, he'll teach, nurture and bring through the talent ala Guardiola at Barca.

Depends on how he does with the EDS imo. I'm sure idealistically its something the owners/execs would love, but realistically it will depend on how he adapts to managing and how he nurtures the talent he gets given over the next few years.

Of course all the above needs to be taken into account but it's something they'll have in mind.

Start at the root and let them grow............

 

[TGR]

All getting uncomfortably personal in here.

One question raised by Razak leaving, shortly after Suarez, (our two best prospects in my book), I thought Pellegrini was brought in as part of a holistic approach to foster links between the EDS and the main squad, but we've let our two best prospects go in less than a fortnight. It's a head scratcher. I genuinely thought I saw the vision of Soriano and Txiki, but apart from Guidetti, who's been here longer than Mansour (and it;s looking a lot less likely he'll be called upon now that we've gone and spent on four attacking players this summer), we've let go of what I consider the players we might have needed/wanted in the near future. I feel a touch irritated. I was on board with the vision but what happened to it?

It really is head scratcher I agree. We let Suarez go as obviously we don't think he's good enough but Barca do?
Razak came thru and made the first team under Mancini (who didn't care about the young players) and we let him go then we go and buy an ageing 32 yo player the same day for millions? I guess It just must be me - I obviously don't understand and haven't grasped the concept of 'holistic' yet.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

All getting uncomfortably personal in here.

One question raised by Razak leaving, shortly after Suarez, (our two best prospects in my book), I thought Pellegrini was brought in as part of a holistic approach to foster links between the EDS and the main squad, but we've let our two best prospects go in less than a fortnight. It's a head scratcher. I genuinely thought I saw the vision of Soriano and Txiki, but apart from Guidetti, who's been here longer than Mansour (and it;s looking a lot less likely he'll be called upon now that we've gone and spent on four attacking players this summer), we've let go of what I consider the players we might have needed/wanted in the near future. I feel a touch irritated. I was on board with the vision but what happened to it?

It really is head scratcher I agree. We let Suarez go as obviously we don't think he's good enough but Barca do?
Razak came thru and made the first team under Mancini (who didn't care about the young players) and we let him go then we go and buy an ageing 32 yo player the same day for millions? I guess It just must be me - I obviously don't understand and haven't grasped the concept of 'holistic' yet.

When I hear the word 'holistic' in my working day I tend to recognise the concept of a bullshitter.

It is not surprising with the pressure for instant results that experienced signings are prioritised though.

 

[Le Havre Oswald]

Firstly imo suarez wasnt going to get in the 1st team anytime soon and for me didnt look anything special when i saw him for the eds. And hes going barca b which is like going to a championship side so theirs no guarentee he will make it to the 1st team.

Secondly Razak has looked a liability everytime he has played and didnt impress me one bit.

Know way were they our best prospects.

 

[supercity88]

It is an odd situation, we give Nastasic a chance away at Real and based on his performance there he plays the whole season as the preferred centre back partner for Vinnie. We have bought an experienced centre back because Pelle knows he can perform and I guess it is important to have that level of experience in certain games. But maybe giving a younger player like Razak a chance he could have excelled in the role like Nastasic did... All a lot of ifs and buts. Nastasic's talent is clear for all to see but being so young he is bound to have a dip in form and I think given the fact that we need to be firing on all cylinders we need someone proven to come in. I think it will be a long and gradual process of introducing young players, not the instant implementation of them as some may have expected with Mancini leaving and Pellegrini arriving.

 

[Anonymous]

Firstly imo suarez wasnt going to get in the 1st team anytime soon and for me didnt look anything special when i saw him for the eds. And hes going barca b which is like going to a championship side so theirs no guarentee he will make it to the 1st team.

Secondly Razak has looked a liability everytime he has played and didnt impress me one bit.

Know way were they our best prospects.

The deal City have done for Suarez is a very good one considering he could've gone to Barca next summer for free. I agree he wasn't at the level of someone like Nasri let alone Silva so he was a long way from the first team.

Razak I never rated even when Mancini gave him the odd minutes here and there. Again Rodwell is 10x the player he is.

I could understand some concern if both players were going to make instant impacts in a top division in Europe like Weiss did after we let him go, but that simply isn't the case here.

 

[BlueAnorak]

The wounds caused by the whole Mancini should stay/go debate are still tender.

Why can't we just move on?

You do realise that sadly this is just the beginning, egos have been damaged and now the tables have turned.

The inners are outers and the outers are now inners, I can't see an end to it to be honest and I think it's going to rattle on all season, unfortunately.

You may see it like that. I'm just concerned at the way we're playing

I am too.

Currently:
- Suicidal high line defending (Honnestly it's on a par with AVB when he was at Chelsea).
- YaYa as a DM (The lazy moments, getting too close to a player or not getting close enough).
- A lack of pace / aggression.
- Poor pressing by strikers and AMs (Silva and Aguero especially).
- The change from Zonal to Man-For-Man marking at set pieces.
- Trying to walk the ball into the net.

Mancini had his problems too:
- No plan B.
- A lack of pace / aggression (compared with the season before)
- A concentration on defensive shape to the exclusion of everything else. (leading too...)
- Slow counter attacking (&)
- Trying to walk the ball into the net.

So far it's definitely a downgrade. New problems + old problems still there. Lets hope it is just teething problems but the Suicidal high line defending is the biggest cause for concern for me. It can only work if the AMs and strikers press and the DMs close down opposition AMs quickly. As things stand, when we play a against a team who have a striker with a pulse we will get crucified.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

It is an odd situation, we give Nastasic a chance away at Real and based on his performance there he plays the whole season as the preferred centre back partner for Vinnie. We have bought an experienced centre back because Pelle knows he can perform and I guess it is important to have that level of experience in certain games. But maybe giving a younger player like Razak a chance he could have excelled in the role like Nastasic did... All a lot of ifs and buts. Nastasic's talent is clear for all to see but being so young he is bound to have a dip in form and I think given the fact that we need to be firing on all cylinders we need someone proven to come in. I think it will be a long and gradual process of introducing young players, not the instant implementation of them as some may have expected with Mancini leaving and Pellegrini arriving.

I don't agree here, I'm afraid. Nastasic was a diiferent case completely to Suarez and/or Razak. He didn't come as an academy hopeful, he came after playing for Partizan and then distinguishing himself during a season with Fiorentina. He was bought on the basis of this record and was considered good enough for the first team. He justified this faith in him and he statistics used to judge central defenders last season show him to have been one of the most successful in Europ, far better, for instance than Varane. Razak never convinced that he was good enough for a place in the first team and even Denis Suarez, who I thought was very promising, looked a long way from being good enough to challenge any of our established midfielders. Dimichaelis has been brought in because we need four CBs. He has a two year deal, by which time young Rekik will be pushing for a first team place and providing real competition for Vinnie and Nasty.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

All getting uncomfortably personal in here.

One question raised by Razak leaving, shortly after Suarez, (our two best prospects in my book), I thought Pellegrini was brought in as part of a holistic approach to foster links between the EDS and the main squad, but we've let our two best prospects go in less than a fortnight. It's a head scratcher. I genuinely thought I saw the vision of Soriano and Txiki, but apart from Guidetti, who's been here longer than Mansour (and it;s looking a lot less likely he'll be called upon now that we've gone and spent on four attacking players this summer), we've let go of what I consider the players we might have needed/wanted in the near future. I feel a touch irritated. I was on board with the vision but what happened to it?

What did you see in Razak? Gave away possession and free-kicks.

Our EDS results have been generally poor. There is also a huge gap between EDS and the top of the Premier League. I believe that Razak is going out on loan, so there is a chance that he'll get plenty of action at a higher standard that he is getting here, so his progress can be monitored by us. As for Suarez, I don't know how long was left on his contract, but he is a young lad and was probably yearning for home, and when Barca came sniffing around, there was only going to be one outcome.

 

[BringBackSwales]

All getting uncomfortably personal in here.

One question raised by Razak leaving, shortly after Suarez, (our two best prospects in my book), I thought Pellegrini was brought in as part of a holistic approach to foster links between the EDS and the main squad, but we've let our two best prospects go in less than a fortnight. It's a head scratcher. I genuinely thought I saw the vision of Soriano and Txiki, but apart from Guidetti, who's been here longer than Mansour (and it;s looking a lot less likely he'll be called upon now that we've gone and spent on four attacking players this summer), we've let go of what I consider the players we might have needed/wanted in the near future. I feel a touch irritated. I was on board with the vision but what happened to it?

What did you see in Razak? Gave away possession and free-kicks.

Our EDS results have been generally poor. There is also a huge gap between EDS and the top of the Premier League. I believe that Razak is going out on loan, so there is a chance that he'll get plenty of action at a higher standard that he is getting here, so his progress can be monitored by us. As for Suarez, I don't know how long was left on his contract, but he is a young lad and was probably yearning for home, and when Barca came sniffing around, there was only going to be one outcome.

I thought Razak's was a permanent deal not a loan deal?

 

[NQCitizen]

You do realise that sadly this is just the beginning, egos have been damaged and now the tables have turned.

The inners are outers and the outers are now inners, I can't see an end to it to be honest and I think it's going to rattle on all season, unfortunately.

You may see it like that. I'm just concerned at the way we're playing

I am too.

Currently:
- Suicidal high line defending (Honnestly it's on a par with AVB when he was at Chelsea).
- YaYa as a DM (The lazy moments, getting too close to a player or not getting close enough).
- A lack of pace / aggression.
- Poor pressing by strikers and AMs (Silva and Aguero especially).
- The change from Zonal to Man-For-Man marking at set pieces.
- Trying to walk the ball into the net.

Mancini had his problems too:
- No plan B.
- A lack of pace / aggression (compared with the season before)
- A concentration on defensive shape to the exclusion of everything else. (leading too...)
- Slow counter attacking (&)
- Trying to walk the ball into the net.

So far it's definitely a downgrade. New problems + old problems still there. Lets hope it is just teething problems but the Suicidal high line defending is the biggest cause for concern for me. It can only work if the AMs and strikers press and the DMs close down opposition AMs quickly. As things stand, when we play a against a team who have a striker with a pulse we will get crucified.

This is disappointingly in tune with how I feel too. Also not very confident in the 4-2-2-2 pretty much every aspect of the team is worse off for it (except Dzeko)

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

What did you see in Razak? Gave away possession and free-kicks.

Our EDS results have been generally poor. There is also a huge gap between EDS and the top of the Premier League. I believe that Razak is going out on loan, so there is a chance that he'll get plenty of action at a higher standard that he is getting here, so his progress can be monitored by us. As for Suarez, I don't know how long was left on his contract, but he is a young lad and was probably yearning for home, and when Barca came sniffing around, there was only going to be one outcome.

I thought Razak's was a permanent deal not a loan deal?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23916361" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23916361</a>

 

[grahamgor]

Pellegrini is not a harmless ''nice guy'' as some in the media have tried to make out. Playing centre-back in Chile, managing in Argentina and helping to rebuild a devastated earthquake zone- that's not the CV of a ''nice guy''.Lescott found out-and garcia ( who worked with him briefly at Real) was reminded how ruthless he can be when the team sheet for Hull came out.And Dzeko found out the same at half time.
but Pellegrini's style of play does involve risk and needs quick-thinking, mobile, unflustered, technically skilled centrebacks to hold the high line. bad luck with injuries to VK and Nastasic left him badly exposed at Cardiff and obliged to choose garcia and Lescott. Still, had the DOF not wasted time trying to do a deal for Pepe and not clinching one for de Michelis before the end of the window, Pellegrini would've had more options in the last two games.

 

[NQCitizen]

Pellegrini is not a harmless ''nice guy'' as some in the media have tried to make out. Playing centre-back in Chile, managing in Argentina and helping to rebuild a devastated earthquake zone- that's not the CV of a ''nice guy''.Lescott found out-and garcia ( who worked with him briefly at Real) was reminded how ruthless he can be when the team sheet for Hull came out.And Dzeko found out the same at half time.
but Pellegrini's style of play does involve risk and needs quick-thinking, mobile, unflustered, technically skilled centrebacks to hold the high line. bad luck with injuries to VK and Nastasic left him badly exposed at Cardiff and obliged to choose garcia and Lescott. Still, had the DOF not wasted time trying to do a deal for Pepe and not clinching one for de Michelis before the end of the window, Pellegrini would've had more options in the last two games.

Seems like he's not been much of a nice guy to Barry...

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Mancini ended our trophy drought which cannot be denied and he was sacked because the club was felt to be going backwards even thought we were runners up in the two major domestic competitions. Sacking him was a major, and controversial, decision. Manuel Pellegrini was appointed to replace him. This is obviously a major decision. My argument is NOT that he is a bad appointment; he may turn out to be an inspired appointment and, I for one, hope he does. But he seems to me to be a gamble because he hasn't, with the exception of one season a Real, managed a team of "stars" where the expectation levels are sky high. He may guide us effortlessly to the PL title and the semi final of the CL. In which case I will applaud him as heartily as anyone. But I don't know if he can do this. I don't know how good he is, and what I keep asking is what, precisely can he be expected to produce, when we stop prattling about "needing time", "squad harmony", "better football and "progress" and other foggy concepts. Hughes and Mancini were given targets each season and both paid the price for not hitting them. It is naive to believe Pellegrini hasn't been told he has to achieve. And it won't be judgement based on loan deals, or saying hallo to the kids - it'll be what his first team does on the pitch. So what should we expect? Because, at the moment, I can't judge Pellegrini. I have to see what he does in the season to come. And none of those who wanted Mancini out seem to have enough faith in his successor to want to tell me.<br /><br />-- Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:33 pm --<br /><br />Mancini ended our trophy drought which cannot be denied and he was sacked because the club was felt to be going backwards even thought we were runners up in the two major domestic competitions. Sacking him was a major, and controversial, decision. Manuel Pellegrini was appointed to replace him. This is obviously a major decision. My argument is NOT that he is a bad appointment; he may turn out to be an inspired appointment and, I for one, hope he does. But he seems to me to be a gamble because he hasn't, with the exception of one season a Real, managed a team of "stars" where the expectation levels are sky high. He may guide us effortlessly to the PL title and the semi final of the CL. In which case I will applaud him as heartily as anyone. But I don't know if he can do this. I don't know how good he is, and what I keep asking is what, precisely can he be expected to produce, when we stop prattling about "needing time", "squad harmony", "better football and "progress" and other foggy concepts. Hughes and Mancini were given targets each season and both paid the price for not hitting them. It is naive to believe Pellegrini hasn't been told he has to achieve. And it won't be judgement based on loan deals, or saying hallo to the kids - it'll be what his first team does on the pitch. So what should we expect? Because, at the moment, I can't judge Pellegrini. I have to see what he does in the season to come. And none of those who wanted Mancini out seem to have enough faith in his successor to want to tell me.

 

[Chi-town blues]

Interesting break down from Hull game..
<a class="postlink" href="http://eplindex.com/39034/manchester-city-20-hull-city-tactical-analysis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://eplindex.com/39034/manchester-ci ... lysis.html</a>

 

[supercity88]

"helping to rebuild a devastated earthquake zone- that's not the CV of a ''nice guy''"

I know, he should have let them suffer in squalor, what a ****!!! ;)

In all seriousness it is early days and the system isn't quite working as of yet. We have had a good transfer window and he will get the best out of our players I am sure. He isn't afraid to make big decisions and will make them for the right reasons so that the on form players play. He wont pick players who do not perform. I fully trust in Pellegrini, you cannot argue with his record with both average and good sides he has got the best out of teams. He will take time to adapt to the premier league but given the fact he is a qualified engineer, I think the obvious issues with our team will have been picked up by his detailed eye!

 

[kaz7]

Honestly the fact he is an engineer has naff all to do with football! other managers are successful without the aid of an engineering degree