Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[jrb]

You’ve hit the nail on the head. This thread keeps going round in circles with some thinking a big second tier makes a huge difference to a slightly smaller third tier.

Any new stand - be it a third tier or bigger second tier will be mainly populated by new fans and 2 tier E&W relocators due to corporate going into their current seats.

The idea that thousands of ‘singers’ are gonna relocate away from seats they’ve been in since the day the stadium opened, to an inferior seat in a second tier or 3rd tier seat is complete fantasy.

It doesn't have to be 1000's of fans. It just needs to be 100's of fans in one or two blocks. Which 115 should have been, but hasn't turned out like that.

No offence. You can't predict there won't be interest and enough people relocating. Until the plans are revealed by the club, including a possible and proper singing section, anything is still possible. Fan groups are working with, and are still in dialogue with the club about improving the atmosphere at the Etihad in the future.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

If they replicate the SSL3 most of the season tickets are between 430 and 350 (bar the first few rows) some of the cheapest in the league.

I get the want and desire for a home end but you'd basically have to turf *everyone* out of their current seats in the North Stand to achieve it.

whats more likely is more of the Colin Bell and East Stand is given up to corporates and people who sit there are offered priority to move to the NSL3 at first then any seats vacated by people wanting to move to cheaper seats in NSL3

They already turfed out thousands of season ticket holders in the north stand, front rows, Colin bell stand. If the club want to force people out of their seats they will.

If we build a large second tier why would we have to force thousands out though?

If they make the north stand 3 tiers everyone on tier 2 currently will get forced out for corporate seating I’d bet

 

[pride in battle]

It doesn't have to be 1000's of fans. It just needs to be 100's of fans in one or two blocks. Which 115 should have been, but hasn't turned out like that.

No offence. You can't predict there won't be interest and enough people relocating. Until the plans are revealed by the club, including a possible and proper singing section, anything is still possible. Fan groups are working with, and are still in dialogue with the club about improving the atmosphere at the Etihad in the future.

Get the singers in the third tier of the South stand, that's where the atmosphere will spread around the ground..

 

[christened at st marks]

The away fans can’t be moved. The away coach park is there. And a % of away fans have to be pitch side. PL rules to improve the atmosphere at grounds.

I would relocate to a large 2nd tier. I won’t relocate to level 1. And that’s if the club are prepared to relocate the Family stand?

Well move the coach park

 

[LongsightM13]

That’s not quite true. But I accept your point, which has been proven often.

The redevelopment of St Peter’s Square. 1 of 5 proposals shown via a public consultation at Manchester Town Hall. The public chose their preferred proposal which was thankfully taken forward by the city council. I’m glad to say I also chose the winning proposal as well. :-)

St Michael’s tower. The public backlash against the original proposal for the tower was huge. The tower was dropped and the Architects were replaced. The city council didn’t come out of the whole sorry episode well.

The public backlash was against this. Thankfully!

View attachment 64010

Today, the development group behind the St Michael’s Proposals has revealed significant changes to their development in the heart of Manchester City Centre, following a public backlash and large-scale objections to the Planning Consultation.

10,000 signatures were made against this scheme with 1500 objections. Legal cases threatened and national heritage conservation groups were ready to assist the citizens. Local groups and individuals including Manchester Shield, the Meteor, built-environment specialist Aidan O’Rourke, Councillor Joan Davies and property developer Mike Ingall all provided their criticism of the scheme.

Revised St Michael’s Tower: How Your Objections Will Shape Manchester’s Future

Today, the development group behind the St Michael’s Proposals has revealed significant changes to their development in the heart of Manchester City Centre, following a public backlash and large-sc…

urbanitymcr.wordpress.com

But as you rightly say, the North stand, City Square Plaza, the City Museum, the City Souvenir Store, and the City Hotel presentation will be a box ticking exercise, a formality, which most City fans, including us, will no doubt support.

The cynical view is that very often, developers will initially propose something outrageously obnoxious in the full knowledge it won’t be accepted. They then ‘revise’ their plans to pretend they have listened and take consultation seriously, and then submit a ‘new’ proposal which is closer to what they secretly planned all along. Much better pr and optics that way, let the McGuffin scheme draw all the heat

 

[LongsightM13]

Well move the coach park

GMP won’t have that

 

[Jesus H Gabz]

The roof means that the noise doesn't spread as well. Case in point was the Chelsea league cup game. SSL1 thought they made a racket and Chelsea didn't sing. Elsewhere in the ground they could only hear Chelsea's one song. The roof blocks noise from between the levels and it's all disjointed. Having an extended second tier means a hell of a lot of people under one roof which is always the best for acoustics. I just think the time has gone for that, they can't and wont shift people now. It will cause an uproar. People want an improved atmosphere but wont move for it. The away fans just can't move now. They have to have some pitchside seats and there isn't the same ability to segregate in the East Stand where they should have been located in the first place. I think we're stuck with what we've got.

I'd say a hell of a lot more people would be upset by a two tier stand and relocation than by a third tier that mirrors the south stand and attracts new fans so I'd imagine that's what we'll get - but I'll be in the minority that is pretty disappointed about that.

I reckon there’s more chance of losing your seat (if you’re central NS2) if we end up with 3 tiers, as they will more likely end up corporate, then you’ve got a decision to make. If it’s 2 tier you’d have a fair chance of retaining what would be great seats. If I was sat there I wouldn’t mind a temp relocation knowing what I was returning too

 

[lancs blue]

whats more likely is more of the Colin Bell and East Stand is given up to corporates

I'm not sure how they'll manage that, EL2 is already corporate or near-corporate, EL1 has a chunk in the centre reserved for one of the hospitality suites and EL3 is immune to being corporate without major development because the concourses are too narrow even for us plebs.

 

[supercity88]

The cynical view is that very often, developers will initially propose something outrageously obnoxious in the full knowledge it won’t be accepted. They then ‘revise’ their plans to pretend they have listened and take consultation seriously, and then submit a ‘new’ proposal which is closer to what they secretly planned all along. Much better pr and optics that way, let the McGuffin scheme draw all the heat

I use that tactic a fair bit. Start of with a scheme for way more houses than you'll ever get and when the plans are finalised it's a lower number and we say we reduced it due to the response. Basic negotiating skills.

 

[lancs blue]

Well move the coach park

Where to exactly? The car park at the bottom of Joe Mercer Way is also used by City supporters' coaches, I can't see them being moved there and I don't see the issue with them being where they are now tbh.

 

[supercity88]

It doesn't have to be 1000's of fans. It just needs to be 100's of fans in one or two blocks. Which 115 should have been, but hasn't turned out like that.

No offence. You can't predict there won't be interest and enough people relocating. Until the plans are revealed by the club, including a possible and proper singing section, anything is still possible. Fan groups are working with, and are still in dialogue with the club about improving the atmosphere at the Etihad in the future.

I'm surprised the fan groups haven't been more involved - you'd expect them to have some knowledge of what is coming if they'd been properly involved in the process. You can talk for years about tweaking small things here and there to try and improve atmosphere, but the best way to do it would be to get people in an expanded 2nd tier of the NS. No one seems to know definitively what the stand will look like, but you'd imagine if the club were really trying to address atmosphere and not just get more people and money in, we'd know it was 2 tiers by now?

 

[Silvercloud]

Well move the coach park

They'll not move the away coach park. Like it where its is not, it's ideal to get them on the coaches and out on their way home.

 

[kun]

I use that tactic a fair bit. Start of with a scheme for way more houses than you'll ever get and when the plans are finalised it's a lower number and we say we reduced it due to the response. Basic negotiating skills.

that's... not the same thing

 

[supercity88]

that's... not the same thing

Yes it is. It's irrelevant to this topic as City will not be putting forward plans that should be deemed as controversial. But in apartment schemes you try to make as much money as possible and push the boundaries knowing it will probably be dialled back to something less profitable, but that still makes money. If it isn't making money it isn't getting built.

 

[eyalluvitt]

Well move the coach park

Back to Wilbraham Road

 

[LEXSTARproject]

So how do they do it at the Kop, South Stand -Spurs, seems like a mess, these grounds have a home end

@supercity88 has it spot on

"The roof means that the noise doesn't spread as well. A case in point was the Chelsea league cup game. SSL1 thought they made a racket and Chelsea didn't sing. Elsewhere in the ground, they could only hear Chelsea's one song. The roof blocks noise from between the levels and it's all disjointed. Having an extended second tier means a hell of a lot of people under one roof which is always the best for acoustics. I just think the time has gone for that, they can't and won't shift people now. It will cause an uproar. People want an improved atmosphere but won't move for it. The away fans just can't move now. They have to have some pitchside seats and there isn't the same ability to segregate in the East Stand where they should have been located in the first place. I think we're stuck with what we've got."

This needs to be sorted out by the club, they basically shooting themself in the foot regarding the atmosphere.

 

[blueparrot]

So how do they do it at the Kop, South Stand -Spurs, seems like a mess, these grounds have a home end

@supercity88 has it spot on

"The roof means that the noise doesn't spread as well. A case in point was the Chelsea league cup game. SSL1 thought they made a racket and Chelsea didn't sing. Elsewhere in the ground, they could only hear Chelsea's one song. The roof blocks noise from between the levels and it's all disjointed. Having an extended second tier means a hell of a lot of people under one roof which is always the best for acoustics. I just think the time has gone for that, they can't and won't shift people now. It will cause an uproar. People want an improved atmosphere but won't move for it. The away fans just can't move now. They have to have some pitchside seats and there isn't the same ability to segregate in the East Stand where they should have been located in the first place. I think we're stuck with what we've got."

This needs to be sorted out by the club, they basically shooting themself in the foot regarding the atmosphere.

Well the away fans are pretty much stuck were they are little the club can do about that. If people don’t want to relocate than they won’t. The club can force it, and personally I don’t mind that and think they should bite the bullet, however the uproar that bring may make the club reluctant do that on-a large scale and I get that.
Saying the club should sort it is easy but some fans are very attached to their seats and quite vocal when moved.

 

[jrb]

Well the away fans are pretty much stuck were they are little the club can do about that. If people don’t want to relocate than they won’t. The club can force it, and personally I don’t mind that and think they should bite the bullet, however the uproar that bring may make the club reluctant do that on-a large scale and I get that.
Saying the club should sort it is easy but some fans are very attached to their seats and quite vocal when moved.

All fans get attached to their seats. But that hasn't stopped the club once from moving fans around the ground with or without a short-term incentive. The same thing may happen with the North stand expansion?

 

[blueparrot]

All fans get attached to their seats. But that hasn't stopped the club once from moving fans around the ground with or without a short-term incentive. The same thing may happen with the North stand expansion?

Yes, but personally I would move all the South stand 1st tier and the East stand 1st tier singing blocks to the North Stand 1st tier safe standing,offer all the seats in the extended 3rd tier if thats what it is to new s/c holders first and reserve some blocks or parts of blocks for matchday sales only so groups of fans can decide to attend and sit together.
Move the family stand to the South stand, problem with that is families next to away fans might not work, or to East stand lower tier. That though would require a relocation of some in The East stand.
Thats just my opinion , but it sounds like a lot of upheaval, not sure what ideas others have assuming it’s a 3 tier we get.

 

[Prophet of Doom]

It doesn't have to be 1000's of fans. It just needs to be 100's of fans in one or two blocks. Which 115 should have been, but hasn't turned out like that.

No offence. You can't predict there won't be interest and enough people relocating. Until the plans are revealed by the club, including a possible and proper singing section, anything is still possible. Fan groups are working with, and are still in dialogue with the club about improving the atmosphere at the Etihad in the future.

If it’s only a few hundred then they can relocate to the new third tier with thousands of extra seats available around them.

They will be surrounded by tourists, season tickets waiting list fans, new fans and other relocaters preferring cheaper tickets ( which is exactly the same as it would be if it was a bigger second tier )

Not sure why an extra 2000 seats in a bigger 2nd tier would make difference to atmosphere when the fans in there will be the same - majority being non singers.