EU Referendum Thread

[hgblue]

Yep they make over 40 billion euros out of us I can just see German industry writing that off if we vote to leave. They will still keep a trading relationship with us only problem I see is that if we vote to leave we won't be the only ones.

There will not be out and out trade sanctions but the EU will still dictate the terms of trade. The UK represents 8% of the German export market. Its significant but not enough to dictate their approach to the UK. There will be plenty of German companies moaning to Merkel if they have to compete with UK firms that do not have to comply with the working time directve and all of the other EU red tape.

Then that will be a problem the Germans have to solve, not us; our products, if desirable or cheaper, will be bought by the Germans or whoever, as we will continue to buy products from Korea and Chile. The argument about staying in is more or less based on fear of what could happen, if our goods were suddenly sanctioned, they won't be, there is no economic gain to be had by doing so.

The argument seems to be that leaving the EU is such a good idea that the rest of the EU can't afford for any country to exit the EU and demonstrate how much of a good idea it is. A really perverse argument for staying in an organization if ever I've heard one.

 

[Chancy Termites]

Out: you only stay in if you intend to become part of a single country at some point in the future, and I don't want to be in a country that doesn't elect it's lawmakers.

Hopefully Greece will render the need for such a referendum redundant.

 

[Len Rum]

I'm ambivalent :)

Whatever turns you on.

 

[manchester blue]

If you want to be ruled by Brussels and, ridiculously for a few days of the month, Strasbourg then vote to stay. (The whole circus travels once a month at a mouth watering cost of £93 million pounds per year).

If you want a European army vote to stay.

If you want a European police force vote to stay.

If you want Europe to make our laws and our MPs to be nothing more than glorified councillors vote to stay.

Otherwise in 2017 you have a choice. And don't let the trade argument sway you. If we make it attractive for companies to invest in the UK they will.

 

[DelToro]

Ich denke, es hängt alles von welchem Fortschritt hängt "Rufen Sie mich Dave" macht in den Verhandlungen. Ich mache mir Sorgen, dass wir am Ende alle deutschsprachigen Raum in der Zukunft.

Bollocks to that.

I'd rather decline two drinks than one German adjective

Anyway English is the single currency of communication.

Wir werden alle bald sprechen Chinese sowieso

 

[roaminblue]

I'd vote very much to stay in, I like the free-movement ideal and think that strong local relationships will be increasingly important as globalisation continues and the orient continues to rise.

I think it could be improved in terms of bureaucracy, efficiency and not being quite so "european", but the basic idea of a united states of europe (bless ol' Churchill, he was ahead of his time) is a solid one.

All arguments put forward in this thread, and quite honestly everywhere, vis a vis trade are simply anecdotal piffle with little grounding in evidence. This is not the way to base a decision. Nothing could change, or everything could change.

On one hand, sure we export a lot to germany, maybe they would be stupid to completely stop that; but they need only put up tarrifs slightly to damage UK exporters.

On the other hand, we buy a lot from germany, sanctions could hurt them, but again this doesn't take into account where the value capture in this chain is.

If there is any concern with the EU, but one believes it could be a strong strategic partner in the future, we should stay in and reform, playing a bigger part on the European stage, being respected for being the political powerhouse we are, and drive forward the change we want to see to ensure that the EU can be the best and most efficient union that works in all of our favour.

 

[Metal Biker]

I think it could be improved in terms of bureaucracy, efficiency and not being quite so "european", but the basic idea of a united states of europe (bless ol' Churchill, he was ahead of his time) is a solid one.

When Churchill made that comment, he did not envisage that Great Britain would be a part of it, nor was he in favour of it being so.

Misquoting Churchill seems to be a pastime these days. - Winston Churchill

 

[TonyM]

I hope the UK has the confidence to leave the EU. I think it would shake up the EU big time and they might just abandon the federalism that has been allowed to bully its way to the fore over the past 10 or 15 years. Small countries leaving make no difference but the UK could.

I worked in the US for 9 years after getting a visa that proved I was not a threat. What in heaven is so bad about that? To avoid that paperwork we have movement of populations westward to locations that haven't hospital beds, police forces, schools or housing to support them. And we all know that amongst the legitimate people are unsavoury elements ready to take advantage.

I welcome diversity and I can understand that wages are too high in some sectors in the west. But those things could be tackled in a fair manner without opening up the gates. IMO it's a form of noise that the politicians prefer rather than actually tackling real problems that we are born into.

And fundamentally why should we favour giving a job to a decent Polish plumber rather than a decent Nigerian plumber just because their nations signed up to some economic agreements? Couldn't they both just get a visa and apply for the job? Diversity and fairness ... My ass.

 

[roaminblue]

I think it could be improved in terms of bureaucracy, efficiency and not being quite so "european", but the basic idea of a united states of europe (bless ol' Churchill, he was ahead of his time) is a solid one.

When Churchill made that comment, he did not envisage that Great Britain would be a part of it, nor was he in favour of it being so.

Misquoting Churchill seems to be a pastime these days. - Winston Churchill

The quote is direct, it is his thoughts that have been postulated on, if I remember correctly

 

[Metal Biker]

I think it could be improved in terms of bureaucracy, efficiency and not being quite so "european", but the basic idea of a united states of europe (bless ol' Churchill, he was ahead of his time) is a solid one.

When Churchill made that comment, he did not envisage that Great Britain would be a part of it, nor was he in favour of it being so.

Misquoting Churchill seems to be a pastime these days. - Winston Churchill

The quote is direct, it is his thoughts that have been postulated on, if I remember correctly

You don't. You've leapt to an assumption that Churchill was a Europhile when there is nothing to suggest that.

"We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed."