General Election - 4th July 2024

[mexico1970]

Working class people can’t critically think?

Wow. Some stereotyping there.

Read the thread I was paraphrasing.

Dibley announced that people who voted for Brexit couldn't critically think, I have shown it was overwhelmingly the working class that voted for Brexit.

Got it?

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Read the thread I was paraphrasing.

You, simplifying and trivialising a topic? Never.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Snide edits on the go again.

Working class? You have no class!

 

[bluethrunthru]

Don't have tweeter etc. Would I be right in saying the gentlemen in the picture is the Labour candidate and an ex para

spot on but I fear there may be another motive. This is what happens when Sunak goes off grid he leaves and election vacuum which all the idiots, rich, entitled and racists feel they have to fill. This one was extra special so soon after Thursday

 

[kaz7]

That slag will be the next leader mark my words I can’t stand her

Why are you calling her a slag ?

 

[inbetween]

I agree with some of what you've said (although I do suspect Farage will win and that he does want to be an MP).

However, there are still many, many more working class people voting for Labour than Reform, and that's before you add in the Greens, and the Lib Dems.

There isn't an homogenous working class who all share similar views, and with changes in work, education and society, most people would struggle to even define who would be part of one anyway.

There were always working class people who were socially right wing, but before social media, it was easier to have broader coalitions supporting political parties. That's part of what Farage is tapping into, but I'd hope he's not got the power to reach far beyond those who are already sympathetic to his views, and I certainly don't think that a significant proportion of whatever is now the 'working class' is close to fully embracing him.

I agree there isn't a homogenous working class but when it comes to politics the working classes tend to be very sensitive to ideology above all else. That ideology is what led to events such as Brexit, remember that 17 million people voted for Brexit, far more than have voted for anything in history.

Do these people now want Labour to unpick or even reverse Brexit because going off this forum that is almost what some expect to now happen with Labour in power? It is actually working class opinion (especially in the north) that is going to divide Labour and limit policy for the next 5 years. It definitely will with Farage in opposition.

You only have to look at current Labour policy on immigration for example which explicitly says to stop the boats which is incredible language for a left leaning party. This is appeasement of the working class right and it's going to be extremely difficult to maintain and struggles from within are bound to happen.

Corbyn offered the working classes everything in 2019 and in return they obliterated him because he offered the one thing that they definitely didn't want which was a 2nd referendum.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

That dungeon in Brussels looks pretty appealing considering the shite trading arrangements we now have which Johnson and his chums engineered.

His chum Farage who didn`t get elected on all 7 previous attempts.

 

[inbetween]

Where do you think I came from? Chatsworth House? Eaton Hall? Windsor Castle?

I grew up in a Council house, among the working class. Some kids came to school in wellies and with the arse hanging out of their trousers.

The 'working class' needs to have a fucking good look at itself, and it also needs to understand that the people holding them down and wrecking the very services they depend on aren't immigrants or foreigners. They're the Tory toffs and their sleazy mates like Rupert Murdoch, the Barclay brothers, Farage and all the rest of the orchestra of conmen and liars. The ones who are never satisfied, but who want more and more of what wealth there is. And, by the way, there is huge wealth in Britain, it's just that 95% of us are arguing among ourselves over about 5% of it, while much of the rest is salted away in tax havens by 'patriots' who love this country so very much they don't want to contribute their share to it.

If people are easily conned, it's not my fault. What am I supposed to do about it? Go out into the streets and preach like John the Baptist? Because I tell you, the great bulk of the lumpen proletariat don't want to think and never have. They just want people to tell them what they want to hear, even if it's total shite. You cannot educate people who do not want to be educated. They're the modern equivalent of the old kings who just wanted to be flattered, and who rejected good counsel.

It's impossible to reconcile the fact that ideology is far more powerful than logic.

 

[Vic]

Where do you think I came from? Chatsworth House? Eaton Hall? Windsor Castle?

I grew up in a Council house, among the working class. Some kids came to school in wellies and with the arse hanging out of their trousers.

The 'working class' needs to have a fucking good look at itself, and it also needs to understand that the people holding them down and wrecking the very services they depend on aren't immigrants or foreigners. They're the Tory toffs and their sleazy mates like Rupert Murdoch, the Barclay brothers, Farage and all the rest of the orchestra of conmen and liars. The ones who are never satisfied, but who want more and more of what wealth there is. And, by the way, there is huge wealth in Britain, it's just that 95% of us are arguing among ourselves over about 5% of it, while much of the rest is salted away in tax havens by 'patriots' who love this country so very much they don't want to contribute their share to it.

If people are easily conned, it's not my fault. What am I supposed to do about it? Go out into the streets and preach like John the Baptist? Because I tell you, the great bulk of the lumpen proletariat don't want to think and never have. They just want people to tell them what they want to hear, even if it's total shite. You cannot educate people who do not want to be educated. They're the modern equivalent of the old kings who just wanted to be flattered, and who rejected good counsel.

That could have come out of The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.

Perhaps Mexico is still like the workers then. They could blame the system...

"But that IS just what the hands did not do. They blamed each other; they blamed Crass, and Hunter, and Rushton, but with the Great System of which they were all more or less the victims they were quite content, being persuaded that it was the only one possible and the best that human wisdom could devise. The reason why they all believed this was because not one of them had ever troubled to inquire whether it would not be possible to order things differently. They were content with the present system. If they had not been content they would have been anxious to find some way to alter it. But they had never taken the trouble to seriously inquire whether it was possible to find some better way, and although they all knew in a hazy fashion that other methods of managing the affairs of the world had already been proposed, they neglected to inquire whether these other methods were possible or practicable, and they were ready and willing to oppose with ignorant ridicule or brutal force any man who was foolish or quixotic enough to try to explain to them the details of what he thought was a better way.
They accepted the present system in the same way as they accepted the alternating seasons. They knew that there was spring and summer and autumn and winter. As to how these different seasons came to be, or what caused them, they hadn’t the remotest notion, and it is extremely doubtful whether the question had ever occurred to any of them: but there is no doubt whatever about the fact that none of them knew. From their infancy they had been trained to distrust their own intelligence, and to leave the management of the affairs of the world—and for that matter of the next world too—to their betters; and now most of them were absolutely incapable of thinking of any abstract subject whatever. Nearly all their betters—that is, the people who do nothing—were unanimous in agreeing that the present system is a very good one and that it is impossible to alter or improve it. Therefore Crass and his mates, although they knew nothing whatever about it themselves, accepted it as an established, incontrovertible fact that the existing state of things is immutable. They believed it because someone else told them so. They would have believed anything: on one condition—namely, that they were told to believe it by their betters. They said it was surely not for the Like of Them to think that they knew better than those who were more educated and had plenty of time to study."

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

It's impossible to reconcile the fact that ideology is far more powerful than logic.

Substitute ideology for narrative and you are spot on. The people that Mexico speaks about aren't very ideological but they are simple minded folks attracted to simple solutions for complex problems.