General Election - 4th July 2024

[East Level 2]

Welcome to what one would hope is the last day of 14 years of Tory misery.

We still have several years of misery due to Tory actions over the last fourteen years.

 

[BrianW]

When you say "seize their assets" do you mean steal my investments, pension, shares, the things I have worked hard for my whole working life..?

That's what they would have to do to make such persons work.

I am not advocating it FFS! I am pointing out the reality behind these figures that Tories put forward to suggest the UK is full of idlers scrounging off the state.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Not sure Matt is on side here lol

 

[BrianW]

 

[Bodicoteblue]

There will be books written and studies done for years to come about how it was possible to turn, in one parliament, an 80 seat majority into the kind of annihilation we are apparently about to about to witness.
The political analysts and professors will be occupied for a long time to try and understand the movements and motivations of all the parties and their leaders and advisers, and of course the policies and the personalities.
I’ll give them a head start.
The tories are devious, corrupt, sleazy incompetent liars who have never had the best interests of the British public at heart and have used the british economy as a giant casino where they made the rules and couldn’t lose.

 

[bluethrunthru]

If this is the answer is the question who is Wurzel Gummidge's fat son?

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

They can't possibly believe this shit. It's not much of a deterrent if there's much, much more chance of never being sent there.

As I’ve said previously on this topic… There is currently a greater chance of asylum applicants drowning in the Channel than being sent to Rwanda.

Now as poor as Rwanda’s human rights record might be, I suspect death may be a stronger deterrent.

So it begs the question, if a small chance of death doesn’t stop them coming, why do Tories think a small chance of being sent to Rwanda will?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

John Crace on #BorisJohnson’s rally;“There was a helicopter hanging from the ceiling above where a crowd of 400 people were gathered. Half of them security guards. The Saigon jokes wrote themselves. Sometimes I think the Tories are running the campaign for my benefit.”

 

[metalblue]

We discuss, we debate and we seek to change minds, that is how democracy works.


Capitalism works for the benefit of the owners of capital, they make decisions based on profit rather than need and value.

The same way any elected official would get elected.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way around, currently we have government from the top down, socialism ecourages government from the bottom up.

Many people already get paid for producing nothing of material value, but they are still vital members of a functioning society,


By democratic means

That would depend, if the profit motive is taken out of any means of production and what is produced is for the benefit of society as a whole, i can envisage that there would be little reason to tax anyone. Taxes generally pay for state largesse and capitalism works because they use Socialism for the already wealthy.

Some Utopian Socialists may say so, I do not adhere to that and there would have to be a democratic decision made on what is fair and what is not. What we do have at the moment is a massive wealth disparity and that needs to be addressed. Questions like should bankers earn more than bricklayers, should MPs earn more than mechanics, should train drivers earn more than taxi drivers etc.

Also work life balance needs to be addressed, it makes no sense to me for a worker to have to work extra hours to pay for childcare for instance when they could work less hours and spend more time with their own kids.

Thanks for engaging, you do it so eloquently unlike that muppet worsleyweb.

I do not have all the answers, but i have grown up in a time of increasing inequality, increasing poverty, austerity and rampant capitalism and its a sad indictment of our country that now the far right are gaining traction on the back of it. Fascism has always gained traction with the backing of the squeezed middle classes and the disaffected working class who see no hope. Socialism is so misunderstood, (even by me at times) and it is in the interests of those with capital to deride Socialism and they do it effectively with the backing of a client media.

The Labour party has all but abandoned any pretext of being Socialist, it is at best Communitarian, it is happy with obscene wealth that trickles down just like Thatcher envisaged. I want a fair society where everyone can eat, has a home, goes to a decent school, gets the best healthcare and people are well looked after when they fall on hard times be that through misfortune or illness.

I doubt I will see it in my lifetime, sadly we are more likely to be ruled by Fascists.

In the context of socialism you’re thinking too small mate. You need this to be THE global system for it to work otherwise you become, both economically speaking and the freedoms enjoyed, North Korea. Not in the sense you have a dictator but you end up with a system that inherently isolates its population. At this stage you don’t need national governments but a single global government and you’d need to weed out any sense of nationalism.

I’d also say that some of your ideas appear to be a mixture of capitalism and socialism which would probably be more easily solved with wealth redistribution- ie capitalism still exists but the mindset is for the greater good not wealth alone. History would suggest you can go a certain way down that road but people will still need to feel rewarded for their efforts however it’s a far more achievable outcome than a global solution.

The fabric of our society has shifted over the last 30 odd years. I suspect even Thatcher would look at today’s society and wonder what the fuck happened. Put simply we have split into self interested groups where both wealth and poverty are traded by our political classes like a commodity. To begin a shift you need to install values in people - a sense of family, a sense of society, a sense of fairness and probably plenty more. Revolutions can often find their seeds in some of these however the flame of hope soon burns out.

 

[Elbow beards]

Sunak on this morning. He's such a slimey ****.