You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Javi Garcia
- Thread starter southstandblue27
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
B
B
bluemc1
Guest
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
so he is ok for 15 mins when we have already won the game ? 16 million ?
as for the stats, please, stats can show all sorts they show Crouch is a better England CF than Shearer and last year Dzeko was better than Van Persie and that Frank Clark was the 4th or 5th best Manager in PL history, what is that stat proving ? he is a better passer than Silva? is he ? no so the stat is shown to be yes bollocks and pointless, I'm sure there will be a stat somewhere showing some goal keepers have given the ball away less than Dzeko so what the fuck does that stat prove or what is it worth ?
show me a stat for 2 players playing the same number of games in similar quality teams in the same position v same quality opposition over 1 or 2 seasons and i might take notice but stats like the one posted are BOLLOCKS
blueinsa said:He is judged against Yaya, Fernny, Silva, Nasri and Milner and you have to feel a little for him in that not many would come out on top of that list.
Not a starter and definitely not a CB but useful on the bench for the last 15 when a game is won.
so he is ok for 15 mins when we have already won the game ? 16 million ?
as for the stats, please, stats can show all sorts they show Crouch is a better England CF than Shearer and last year Dzeko was better than Van Persie and that Frank Clark was the 4th or 5th best Manager in PL history, what is that stat proving ? he is a better passer than Silva? is he ? no so the stat is shown to be yes bollocks and pointless, I'm sure there will be a stat somewhere showing some goal keepers have given the ball away less than Dzeko so what the fuck does that stat prove or what is it worth ?
show me a stat for 2 players playing the same number of games in similar quality teams in the same position v same quality opposition over 1 or 2 seasons and i might take notice but stats like the one posted are BOLLOCKS
Lancet Fluke
Well-Known Member
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
But if you watch him most weeks then those stats can be put into context so it isn't going to change most people's perception. For instance, it doesn't surprise me at all that his pass completion percentage is high because I know the context of most of those passes and it's only right that playing 10 yard square or backward passes when not being pressed should be completed. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether people think he is a decent or a terrible player, for me the most important thing is whether we function well as a team with him in it and the stat that someone produced about our points per match when he starts combined with the evidence I see with my own eyes at the match tells me that we don't. Although I do realise that I am giving the stats that reinforce my perception of Garcia more credence than those that don't.
NQCitizen said:Lancet Fluke said:That's all fair enough but you learn a lot more about a player by the subjective evidence of watching him play than by the factual evidence of looking at stats.NQCitizen said:... that's subjective evidence unless you are an unerring collector of only quantitative evidence?
Your judgement should be informed by the facts you are presented with. That's genuinely how intelligent life on the planet learns.
Oh that's incredibly true. But if you encounter facts that challenge your view you should definitely try and take them on board.
When I watch him I think he does his job fairly well. 7/10 maybe. Best in a three, bit slow.
Luckily the facts I encounter reinforce my subjective viewpoint.
Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but that shouldn't turn into "I say this and therefore it is fact". If there's genuinely no distinction between quantitative and qualitative data then it's a broken forum for discussion, but I believe there is.
I hope some people read those stats and think "maybe Javi isn't so bad", that their subjective opinion at least takes them into account.
But if you watch him most weeks then those stats can be put into context so it isn't going to change most people's perception. For instance, it doesn't surprise me at all that his pass completion percentage is high because I know the context of most of those passes and it's only right that playing 10 yard square or backward passes when not being pressed should be completed. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether people think he is a decent or a terrible player, for me the most important thing is whether we function well as a team with him in it and the stat that someone produced about our points per match when he starts combined with the evidence I see with my own eyes at the match tells me that we don't. Although I do realise that I am giving the stats that reinforce my perception of Garcia more credence than those that don't.
The Fat el Hombre
Well-Known Member
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
What would be better is if someone could do one of those youtube vids focussing on only him for a couple of Javi's games. I don't read those stats and think 'maybe javi isn't so bad' I read them and think that the pass rate is so high because he's always passing sideways or backwards and he hasn't been skinned much because he's too far behind for it to even register that he's close enough to be skinned.
NQCitizen said:Lancet Fluke said:That's all fair enough but you learn a lot more about a player by the subjective evidence of watching him play than by the factual evidence of looking at stats.NQCitizen said:... that's subjective evidence unless you are an unerring collector of only quantitative evidence?
Your judgement should be informed by the facts you are presented with. That's genuinely how intelligent life on the planet learns.
Oh that's incredibly true. But if you encounter facts that challenge your view you should definitely try and take them on board.
When I watch him I think he does his job fairly well. 7/10 maybe. Best in a three, bit slow.
Luckily the facts I encounter reinforce my subjective viewpoint.
Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but that shouldn't turn into "I say this and therefore it is fact". If there's genuinely no distinction between quantitative and qualitative data then it's a broken forum for discussion, but I believe there is.
I hope some people read those stats and think "maybe Javi isn't so bad", that their subjective opinion at least takes them into account.
What would be better is if someone could do one of those youtube vids focussing on only him for a couple of Javi's games. I don't read those stats and think 'maybe javi isn't so bad' I read them and think that the pass rate is so high because he's always passing sideways or backwards and he hasn't been skinned much because he's too far behind for it to even register that he's close enough to be skinned.
Lancet Fluke
Well-Known Member
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
We'd have to give them another 200 million before the Garcia price tag starts looking reasonable in comparison.
Ray78 said:Lancet Fluke said:Ray78 said:They would as they didn't completely take the piss with their value. Lars Bender is a very good choice but he would not settle for a squad role unlike Garcia.
You don't think 16 million was taking the piss for Garcia? Bear in mind we got Negredo for about 500k more.
We will end up paying more for Negredo depending on how both player and club do.
We'd have to give them another 200 million before the Garcia price tag starts looking reasonable in comparison.
Cobwebcat
Well-Known Member
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
I'm a huge stat geek and your stats do influence me to think again. Then I see him play and I cringe. It's weird they just don't seem to match up. The bottom line is his lack of pace and tackling ability make me very nervous.
NQCitizen said:Lancet Fluke said:That's all fair enough but you learn a lot more about a player by the subjective evidence of watching him play than by the factual evidence of looking at stats.NQCitizen said:... that's subjective evidence unless you are an unerring collector of only quantitative evidence?
Your judgement should be informed by the facts you are presented with. That's genuinely how intelligent life on the planet learns.
Oh that's incredibly true. But if you encounter facts that challenge your view you should definitely try and take them on board.
When I watch him I think he does his job fairly well. 7/10 maybe. Best in a three, bit slow.
Luckily the facts I encounter reinforce my subjective viewpoint.
Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but that shouldn't turn into "I say this and therefore it is fact". If there's genuinely no distinction between quantitative and qualitative data then it's a broken forum for discussion, but I believe there is.
I hope some people read those stats and think "maybe Javi isn't so bad", that their subjective opinion at least takes them into account.
I'm a huge stat geek and your stats do influence me to think again. Then I see him play and I cringe. It's weird they just don't seem to match up. The bottom line is his lack of pace and tackling ability make me very nervous.
NQCitizen
Well-Known Member
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
See that's interesting because they're flaws I'm aware of but that I don't rate as too much of a concern because I think he's good in possession, great in the air and tactically astute, I think that with what I've seen with my own eyes too.
Which in one of very few times in this thread represents a reasoned argument for and a reasoned argument against.
Cobwebcat said:NQCitizen said:Lancet Fluke said:That's all fair enough but you learn a lot more about a player by the subjective evidence of watching him play than by the factual evidence of looking at stats.
Oh that's incredibly true. But if you encounter facts that challenge your view you should definitely try and take them on board.
When I watch him I think he does his job fairly well. 7/10 maybe. Best in a three, bit slow.
Luckily the facts I encounter reinforce my subjective viewpoint.
Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but that shouldn't turn into "I say this and therefore it is fact". If there's genuinely no distinction between quantitative and qualitative data then it's a broken forum for discussion, but I believe there is.
I hope some people read those stats and think "maybe Javi isn't so bad", that their subjective opinion at least takes them into account.
I'm a huge stat geek and your stats do influence me to think again. Then I see him play and I cringe. It's weird they just don't seem to match up. The bottom line is his lack of pace and tackling ability make me very nervous.
See that's interesting because they're flaws I'm aware of but that I don't rate as too much of a concern because I think he's good in possession, great in the air and tactically astute, I think that with what I've seen with my own eyes too.
Which in one of very few times in this thread represents a reasoned argument for and a reasoned argument against.
NQCitizen
Well-Known Member
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
I completely see where you're coming from, just different people with different priorities in what they want from the players. Even the quoted stat about his starts is one that needs care as it possibly hints Garcia plays predominantly when we're in defensive turmoil anyway.
The only thing that gets to me is people just asserting he's the worst player ever and then subsequently ignoring anything that suggests he might not be as bad as their hilarious exaggerations suggest. Nasri had the same problem on this board last year, as if the person who could call him a "shithouse" most was going to win a cash prize or something.
Lancet Fluke said:NQCitizen said:Lancet Fluke said:That's all fair enough but you learn a lot more about a player by the subjective evidence of watching him play than by the factual evidence of looking at stats.
Oh that's incredibly true. But if you encounter facts that challenge your view you should definitely try and take them on board.
When I watch him I think he does his job fairly well. 7/10 maybe. Best in a three, bit slow.
Luckily the facts I encounter reinforce my subjective viewpoint.
Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but that shouldn't turn into "I say this and therefore it is fact". If there's genuinely no distinction between quantitative and qualitative data then it's a broken forum for discussion, but I believe there is.
I hope some people read those stats and think "maybe Javi isn't so bad", that their subjective opinion at least takes them into account.
But if you watch him most weeks then those stats can be put into context so it isn't going to change most people's perception. For instance, it doesn't surprise me at all that his pass completion percentage is high because I know the context of most of those passes and it's only right that playing 10 yard square or backward passes when not being pressed should be completed. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether people think he is a decent or a terrible player, for me the most important thing is whether we function well as a team with him in it and the stat that someone produced about our points per match when he starts combined with the evidence I see with my own eyes at the match tells me that we don't. Although I do realise that I am giving the stats that reinforce my perception of Garcia more credence than those that don't.
I completely see where you're coming from, just different people with different priorities in what they want from the players. Even the quoted stat about his starts is one that needs care as it possibly hints Garcia plays predominantly when we're in defensive turmoil anyway.
The only thing that gets to me is people just asserting he's the worst player ever and then subsequently ignoring anything that suggests he might not be as bad as their hilarious exaggerations suggest. Nasri had the same problem on this board last year, as if the person who could call him a "shithouse" most was going to win a cash prize or something.
Dzeko's Right Boot
Well-Known Member
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
People go on about his price as if he is the only player we've ever overpayed for.
Not many of our signings under the Sheikh have been fair value. I'd say Silva, Toure, Aguero, Negredo, Boateng, Zabaleta and probably Navas are the ones who could be put under that tag. That means players like Bellamy, Milner and Nige are players we overpayed for. Nige was a big fuck-up, price-wise.
People go on about his price as if he is the only player we've ever overpayed for.
Not many of our signings under the Sheikh have been fair value. I'd say Silva, Toure, Aguero, Negredo, Boateng, Zabaleta and probably Navas are the ones who could be put under that tag. That means players like Bellamy, Milner and Nige are players we overpayed for. Nige was a big fuck-up, price-wise.
Re: Javi Garcia (merged)
Still think he is one of the worst player I've ever seen play for City in over 20 years. Nice guy so I wish him well. Hopefully this January he'll find a club where he can succeed. Surely without squad and academy we can't be stuck for backup DM and if we are then buy a replacement (one with pace and the ability to tackle).
Still think he is one of the worst player I've ever seen play for City in over 20 years. Nice guy so I wish him well. Hopefully this January he'll find a club where he can succeed. Surely without squad and academy we can't be stuck for backup DM and if we are then buy a replacement (one with pace and the ability to tackle).
- Status
- Not open for further replies.