Javi Garcia

[taconinja]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

Tackling is not nearly as important I think as some make it out. It's nice but more often than not when you aren't in England the referee gives a foul and you're facing a free kick at best. Worse, you accumulate cards and penalties plus if the tackle doesn't come off you often have to deal with an attacker free on goal. It's why Busquets is so great. He can tackle, but that isn't the point of his game. He isn't there just to stop people.

 

[Dzeko's Right Boot]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

Tackling is not nearly as important I think as some make it out. It's nice but more often than not when you aren't in England the referee gives a foul and you're facing a free kick at best. Worse, you accumulate cards and penalties plus if the tackle doesn't come off you often have to deal with an attacker free on goal. It's why Busquets is so great. He can tackle, but that isn't the point of his game. He isn't there just to stop people.

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it." - Xabi Alonso.

 

[taconinja]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

Tackling is not nearly as important I think as some make it out. It's nice but more often than not when you aren't in England the referee gives a foul and you're facing a free kick at best. Worse, you accumulate cards and penalties plus if the tackle doesn't come off you often have to deal with an attacker free on goal. It's why Busquets is so great. He can tackle, but that isn't the point of his game. He isn't there just to stop people.

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it." - Xabi Alonso.

Yes. Barry understood it too and played much the same way. Unfortunately his pace was starting to slip and he had to resort to more fouls that elicited yellow cards. Still a great servant to the club and I'm supremely pleased he won a title with us.

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

Oh that's incredibly true. But if you encounter facts that challenge your view you should definitely try and take them on board.

When I watch him I think he does his job fairly well. 7/10 maybe. Best in a three, bit slow.

Luckily the facts I encounter reinforce my subjective viewpoint.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but that shouldn't turn into "I say this and therefore it is fact". If there's genuinely no distinction between quantitative and qualitative data then it's a broken forum for discussion, but I believe there is.

I hope some people read those stats and think "maybe Javi isn't so bad", that their subjective opinion at least takes them into account.

But if you watch him most weeks then those stats can be put into context so it isn't going to change most people's perception. For instance, it doesn't surprise me at all that his pass completion percentage is high because I know the context of most of those passes and it's only right that playing 10 yard square or backward passes when not being pressed should be completed. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether people think he is a decent or a terrible player, for me the most important thing is whether we function well as a team with him in it and the stat that someone produced about our points per match when he starts combined with the evidence I see with my own eyes at the match tells me that we don't. Although I do realise that I am giving the stats that reinforce my perception of Garcia more credence than those that don't.

I completely see where you're coming from, just different people with different priorities in what they want from the players. Even the quoted stat about his starts is one that needs care as it possibly hints Garcia plays predominantly when we're in defensive turmoil anyway.

The only thing that gets to me is people just asserting he's the worst player ever and then subsequently ignoring anything that suggests he might not be as bad as their hilarious exaggerations suggest. Nasri had the same problem on this board last year, as if the person who could call him a "shithouse" most was going to win a cash prize or something.

well nasri is a bit of a frustrating shithouse at times, I'm afraid to compliment his play this year because every time I've done it before he's played like a drunken pirate with 2 peg legs and an eyepatch in the next game.

 

[taconinja]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

But if you watch him most weeks then those stats can be put into context so it isn't going to change most people's perception. For instance, it doesn't surprise me at all that his pass completion percentage is high because I know the context of most of those passes and it's only right that playing 10 yard square or backward passes when not being pressed should be completed. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether people think he is a decent or a terrible player, for me the most important thing is whether we function well as a team with him in it and the stat that someone produced about our points per match when he starts combined with the evidence I see with my own eyes at the match tells me that we don't. Although I do realise that I am giving the stats that reinforce my perception of Garcia more credence than those that don't.

I completely see where you're coming from, just different people with different priorities in what they want from the players. Even the quoted stat about his starts is one that needs care as it possibly hints Garcia plays predominantly when we're in defensive turmoil anyway.

The only thing that gets to me is people just asserting he's the worst player ever and then subsequently ignoring anything that suggests he might not be as bad as their hilarious exaggerations suggest. Nasri had the same problem on this board last year, as if the person who could call him a "shithouse" most was going to win a cash prize or something.

well nasri is a bit of a frustrating shithouse at times, I'm afraid to compliment his play this year because every time I've done it before he's played like a drunken pirate with 2 peg legs and an eyepatch in the next game.

Then don't you dare compliment him! Slate him! Slate him like your life depends on it!

;)

 

[aguero93:20]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

don't worry he gets abuse for breakfast this season, that's why he's playing so well ;)

 

[Puppet Master Silva]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

Tackling is not nearly as important I think as some make it out. It's nice but more often than not when you aren't in England the referee gives a foul and you're facing a free kick at best. Worse, you accumulate cards and penalties plus if the tackle doesn't come off you often have to deal with an attacker free on goal. It's why Busquets is so great. He can tackle, but that isn't the point of his game. He isn't there just to stop people.

"I don't think tackling is a quality. It is a recurso, something you have to resort to, not a characteristic of your game. At Liverpool I used to read the matchday programme and you'd read an interview with a lad from the youth team. They'd ask: age, heroes, strong points, etc. He'd reply: 'Shooting and tackling'. I can't get into my head that football development would educate tackling as a quality, something to learn, to teach, a characteristic of your play. How can that be a way of seeing the game? I just don't understand football in those terms. Tackling is a [last] resort, and you will need it, but it isn't a quality to aspire to, a definition. It's hard to change because it's so rooted in the English football culture, but I don't understand it." - Xabi Alonso.

I started reading this post and thought I'd heard it from Xabi Alonso before. One of my favourites and more than anything shows why the English national team is so far behind. Rather get behind a Scott Parker than an Adam Lallana, finally starting to see the error of our ways now though.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

Oh that's incredibly true. But if you encounter facts that challenge your view you should definitely try and take them on board.

When I watch him I think he does his job fairly well. 7/10 maybe. Best in a three, bit slow.

Luckily the facts I encounter reinforce my subjective viewpoint.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinions but that shouldn't turn into "I say this and therefore it is fact". If there's genuinely no distinction between quantitative and qualitative data then it's a broken forum for discussion, but I believe there is.

I hope some people read those stats and think "maybe Javi isn't so bad", that their subjective opinion at least takes them into account.

I'm a huge stat geek and your stats do influence me to think again. Then I see him play and I cringe. It's weird they just don't seem to match up. The bottom line is his lack of pace and tackling ability make me very nervous.

See that's interesting because they're flaws I'm aware of but that I don't rate as too much of a concern because I think he's good in possession, great in the air and tactically astute, I think that with what I've seen with my own eyes too.

Which in one of very few times in this thread represents a reasoned argument for and a reasoned argument against.

To me his only strength is he is always available for a pass and he knows what he wants to do before he receives it. He's ok in the air but he was beaten by a midget for a flick on that resulted in a goal...Cardiff I think. If he gets closed down he panics and is knocked off the ball very easily for a big bloke. Tactically I think he cuts out a lot of passes the opposition would otherwise make but he contributes nothing going forward. It's when we haven't got the ball that he's a worry mainly. To me his negatives far outweigh his positives.

When NDJ was on the pitch I felt safe. With Garcia I'm watching through my hands. Even coming on at 5-0 for 15 minutes he was all over the place didn't you think? Same goes for when he came on against United.

I'd be astonished if he is still here next season unless he improves his overall game.

Another annoying thing is he always seems to be in every training video!

 

[BigOscar]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

^I think the "flick on by a midget" you are thinking of was against CSKA. The midget in question isn't actually a midget, it was Honda, who is only perceived to be a midget because he's Japanese, he's actually only about an inch shorter than Garcia.

 

[bluemc1]

Re: Javi Garcia (merged)

^I think the "flick on by a midget" you are thinking of was against CSKA. The midget in question isn't actually a midget, it was Honda, who is only perceived to be a midget because he's Japanese, he's actually only about an inch shorter than Garcia.

fuckin E.Honda from street fighter 2 would beat him in the air