Keir Starmer

[BrianW]

The problem with scrapping the 'two child' limit is that if you do so it will appear in the Daily Mail as: 'Taxpayers (i.e. you) being forced to subsidise families who have never worked and choose to have 16 kids.' Accompanied by pictures of one such family holidaying in Benidorm and coming back to their 8-bedroom council house with its 70" flat-screen TV.

Because that is the state of politics in this country. Fucking dire.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

The problem with scrapping the 'two child' limit is that if you do so it will appear in the Daily Mail as: 'Taxpayers (i.e. you) being forced to subsidise families who have never worked and choose to have 16 kids.' Accompanied by pictures of one such family holidaying in Benidorm and coming back to their 8-bedroom council house with its 70" flat-screen TV.

Because that is the state of politics in this country. Fucking dire.

Alastair Campbell used the analogy of his route to victory is like trying to carry a Ming vase over an ice rink.

It's in his hands but he just needs to be smooth and steady.

Campbell said (and I agree) that it's likely that he just doesn't want to rock the boat too much with the centrist swing voters but once they're in power they'll probably change this policy.

What so many people on the left don't understand is that you need to win power before you can do anything. Winning absolutely must be the one and only objective in a campaign, otherwise you're just a load of angry protestors with the power to do fuck all.

Starmer knows exactly what he is doing - same thing with his frequent criticisms of the environmental protesters. It plays well with the swing voters, he can't be seen to be just another 'woke leftie'.

Tony Blair also knew this and it won him three general elections. A fact that again, a lot on the left conveniently choose to ignore.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Seems a shame from an outside view that Labour seem to be shooting themselves in the foot when they are on the cusp of finally getting into power.
Is Starmer really as bad as this thread makes out?

I don't think, at a fundamental level, Starmer is a bad person and I think as a former human rights lawyer and head of the CPS he is going to be competent (which is already an improvement on the Tories regardless of policy). I will probably end up voting for him because I think he will probably improve things in some small way (though he'd be hard-pressed to do worse than the current government).

I think Starmer's challenge is that he has had to maintain a holding position without any prospect of an election for four whole years, while the whole time the Tories look like they're in death throes. This is my appraisal of the situation, but it's largely just my opinion.

As a result of the Tory collapse, he has shifted his position from being a candidate of 'hope' to being a candidate of 'stability' which has been extremely jarring for many of his former advocates - he's foregone a lot of his past promises and failed to offer one little carrot to the left of the party to make them think he's still their man. He is doing the Tony Blair act of stealing the centre ground, but at the moment he doesn't look like he is stealing it for any actual purpose. I would be much more enthusiastic about him as a party leader if he went along the lines of "We're going to have to get in power to enact policy, so let's do what it takes, but when we get there we'll enact PR" or something like that.

Now, I am one of those that thinks that, just as New Labour did a lot of good things once they got into government including minimum wage and reduced NHS waiting times, he is probably trying to do something similar. My worry is that this kind of policy 'evolution' is going to take a long time to implement, and some (like me) want to see just 5-10% of 'revolution' because otherwise I fear the Tories could just be back in 5 years dismantling shit again.

I like Starmer's pragmatism, I don't care much for his flip-flopping, I would love for him just to put one thing on the table for me to get excited about.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

I think Starmer's challenge is that he has had to maintain a holding position without any prospect of an election for four whole years, while the whole time the Tories look like they're in death throes. This is my appraisal of the situation, but it's largely just my opinion.

Sitting back and giving an inept rival enough rope is a perfectly legit campaign tactic, as frustrating as it can look on the outside. It's exactly what the Biden campaign did in 2020 and it was a very smart move.

I'm sure the campaign team behind Starmer took note of this.

 

[mexico1970]

Sitting back and giving an inept rival enough rope is a perfectly legit campaign tactic, as frustrating as it can look on the outside. It's exactly what the Biden campaign did in 2020 and it was a very smart move.

I'm sure the campaign team behind Starmer took note of this.

You could put a cardboard cut out of a badly drawn blancmange in as opposition to the tories and it would easily win.

Anyone with a pulse and it should be in the bag, but this is Labour we are talking about, they should have gone with the blancmange.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

You could put a cardboard cut out of a badly drawn blancmange in as opposition to the tories and it would easily win.

Anyone with a pulse and it should be in the bag, but this is Labour we are talking about, they should have gone with the blancmange.

Or, a lettuce even?

 

[mexico1970]

Or, a lettuce even?

Maybe a potato with a quirky come hither face?

 

[bluenova]

With more and more demands on the State and expectations running high control of the finances and keeping the markets calm is going to be a massive juggling act

It's certainly not likely to be a great time to be coming into power, but the Tories have gone so far down the rabbit hole that the markets and most big financial institutions will probably welcome a Labour govt.

Tory economic policy has been batshit crazy for years now, without any real identifiable approach. Arguably, austerity was the last time they had a plan, and that was one that most economists decided was misguided fairly quickly.

 

[Johnny Mars Bar]

Maybe a potato with a quirky come hither face?

Now I've just got an image of a bald Boris Johnson in my head.

 

[SkyBlueFlux]

Sitting back and giving an inept rival enough rope is a perfectly legit campaign tactic, as frustrating as it can look on the outside. It's exactly what the Biden campaign did in 2020 and it was a very smart move.

I'm sure the campaign team behind Starmer took note of this.

I'm in total agreement, as per my post though - the risk of that is that the opposition can unhang themselves for the next election. You need to make some big moves while in government to keep them buried. Biden has done some good things in the US. I hope Starmer has big plans.