Keir Starmer

[@BluePhil8]

Agree - Corybn was and is a disaster for Labour. The hard left give it a 6th form A level politics course look and feel. Lots of big ideas and optimistic thinking - zero appeal to big chunks of the traditional labour vote, moderates from all walks of life and social standing not just the working class labour voters the media default to.



Fully agree, Johnson is a complete twat, Labour should focus on someone who can re balance the party to appeal to the majority of the public who consider him a national embarrassment.

Think Labour is dead in the water to be honest, they are not a viable opposition. I think we will see a new centre left party rise and take most of their vote before the next GE - leaving Labour with their 18-20 year old supporters that want to tackle urgent issues such as whether we should say Empire any more.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Think Labour is dead in the water to be honest, they are not a viable opposition. I think we will see a new centre left party rise and take most of their vote before the next GE - leaving Labour with their 18-20 year old supporters that want to tackle urgent issues such as whether we should say Empire any more.

Tried and failed though. Millions of voters default to Labour every time and that means that fighting for control of the party is better than fighting to build a new party.

One thing no on is mentioning is a merger of Labour / Lib Dem / Green. The core voters for all 3 are pro Eu and have way more in common than they do with the Alt right tories. I think that might get floated at some point by someone.

 

[@BluePhil8]

Tried and failed though. Millions of voters default to Labour every time and that means that fighting for control of the party is better than fighting to build a new party.

One thing no on is mentioning is a merger of Labour / Lib Dem / Green. The core voters for all 3 are pro Eu and have way more in common than they do with the Alt right tories. I think that might get floated at some point by someone.

They do but I think Scotland going from all Labour to all SNP in a very short space of time proves the appetite is there from Northern voters but a viable alternative just isn't here yet. Libs and Green party are just a more extreme Labour in some cases and both have their own negative stigma attached.

 

[Ban-jani]

Tried and failed though. Millions of voters default to Labour every time and that means that fighting for control of the party is better than fighting to build a new party.

One thing no on is mentioning is a merger of Labour / Lib Dem / Green. The core voters for all 3 are pro Eu and have way more in common than they do with the Alt right tories. I think that might get floated at some point by someone.

Those clowns in the Change UK/Independent Group/What do we do now party proved that you cannot form a new party in our two party system but if you were to break up that system, by destroying one of the two major parties, that maybe possible.

The LibDems were a centrist, pro-EU option and flopped.

For anything substantial to happen we need at least one of, if not both, major parties to die.

I’m all in favour of a proper Conservative party (based on Edmund Burke and not David Cameron’s ilk), a social democrat, a neoliberal and a socialist party battling as a four party system, I just cannot see those benefiting from the two party system letting it happen.

 

[aguero93:20]

Those clowns in the Change UK/Independent Group/What do we do now party proved that you cannot form a new party in our two party system but if you were to break up that system, by destroying one of the two major parties, that maybe possible.

The LibDems were a centrist, pro-EU option and flopped.

For anything substantial to happen we need at least one of, if not both, major parties to die.

I’m all in favour of a proper Conservative party (based on Edmund Burke and not David Cameron’s ilk), a social democrat, a neoliberal and a socialist party battling as a four party system, I just cannot see those benefiting from the two party system letting it happen.

You can set up a new party, but it needs to be from grassroots/ council level upwards and it can't be done overnight. Change UK tried to do it from the top down without the local organisation and membership which won't work. Labour on the other hand started at grassroots level with the trade unions and grew organically, destroying the Whigs in the process.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Those clowns in the Change UK/Independent Group/What do we do now party proved that you cannot form a new party in our two party system but if you were to break up that system, by destroying one of the two major parties, that maybe possible.

The LibDems were a centrist, pro-EU option and flopped.

For anything substantial to happen we need at least one of, if not both, major parties to die.

I’m all in favour of a proper Conservative party (based on Edmund Burke and not David Cameron’s ilk), a social democrat, a neoliberal and a socialist party battling as a four party system, I just cannot see those benefiting from the two party system letting it happen.

True - but they did get 3.9m votes 11.6% of the total.

That alone is enough to over turn the popular vote. It is more complex when you get into constituency breakdowns but if the 2019 Election was a genuine Brexit election then Tories got 42% and brexit party got 2%. Labour / Lib Dem / Green got 45% combined. The next GE will not be a Brexit election so its all up for grabs again.

 

[Ban-jani]

You can set up a new party, but it needs to be from grassroots/ council level upwards and it can't be done overnight. Change UK tried to do it from the top down without the local organisation and membership which won't work. Labour on the other hand started at grassroots level with the trade unions and grew organically, destroying the Whigs in the process.

The party machines will eat any of these attempts up.

 

[Ban-jani]

True - but they did get 3.9m votes 11.6% of the total.

That alone is enough to over turn the popular vote. It is more complex when you get into constituency breakdowns but if the 2019 Election was a genuine Brexit election then Tories got 42% and brexit party got 2%. Labour / Lib Dem / Green got 45% combined. The next GE will not be a Brexit election so its all up for grabs again.

Leavers will always vote Labour and remainers will always vote Tory though.

The switch in Labour heartlands to Tory and the drop off in the remain supporting Labour Party say to me that the country still wishes to leave, although it’s likely close to 50/50 still.

 

[aguero93:20]

The party machines will eat any of these attempts up.

Not if they have a real identity separate to that of the two main parties, as Labour and the SNP had.

 

[mexico1970]

True - but they did get 3.9m votes 11.6% of the total.

That alone is enough to over turn the popular vote. It is more complex when you get into constituency breakdowns but if the 2019 Election was a genuine Brexit election then Tories got 42% and brexit party got 2%. Labour / Lib Dem / Green got 45% combined. The next GE will not be a Brexit election so its all up for grabs again.

If Labour don't sort out that front bench and momentum then they will win a sum total of nothing, they've still got their head in the sand and are trying to feed the voting public a diet of identity politics and Marxism.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Leavers will always vote Labour and remainers will always vote Tory though.

The switch in Labour heartlands to Tory and the drop off in the remain supporting Labour Party say to me that the country still wishes to leave, although it’s likely close to 50/50 still.

The latest you gov poll has remain at 45%, leave at 40% and the balance dont know. As a trend that is continuing fall for support for leave with increasing numbers of don't knows. Clearly people are concerned and however this pans out it will undoubtedly shape the view people have of the parties at the next GE. Bojo will be 100% tied to brexit and many leave voters in northern towns are expecting their lives to improve as a result.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

If Labour don't sort out that front bench and momentum then they will win a sum total of nothing, they've still got their head in the sand and are trying to feed the voting public a diet of identity politics and Marxism.

Agree. I cant stand Corbyn. I blame Corbyn for the shit show of tories we have in government.

 

[mexico1970]

Agree. I cant stand Corbyn. I blame Corbyn for the shit show of tories we have in government.

Labour needs an internal war with the possibility of a split, but one thing concerns me and IMO should concern everyone else. Momentum and its followers could go full on balaclava, and unless that's addressed they will commit bad things.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Labour needs an internal war with the possibility of a split, but one thing concerns me and IMO should concern everyone else. Momentum and its followers could go full on balaclava, and unless that's addressed they will commit bad things.

You do know these people are pacifists who attend anti war demos? I think the chances of them going rogue in a balaclava is close to zero.

 

[mexico1970]

You do know these people are pacifists who attend anti war demos? I think the chances of them going rogue in a balaclava is close to zero.

They are nowhere near pacifists they are thugs, where are you getting your information bud?

 

[Ban-jani]

The latest you gov poll has remain at 45%, leave at 40% and the balance dont know. As a trend that is continuing fall for support for leave with increasing numbers of don't knows. Clearly people are concerned and however this pans out it will undoubtedly shape the view people have of the parties at the next GE. Bojo will be 100% tied to brexit and many leave voters in northern towns are expecting their lives to improve as a result.

It depends which poll and when it’s quoted. It’s been close to 50/50 since 2016 in reality.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questio...ns-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/

 

[Chippy_boy]

Agree. I cant stand Corbyn. I blame Corbyn for the shit show of tories we have in government.

A fair criticism. Since it is entirely his fault.

And complicit in it, the dickheads who voted for him as party leader. Twice.

 

[The perfect fumble]

A fair criticism. Since it is entirely his fault.

And complicit in it, the dickheads who voted for him as party leader. Twice.

Is that like a dog with two dicks?

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

The leadership 'battle' is dying on its arse.

Apart from a tiny number of activists everyone else has lost the slight interest they might have had in it.

Ah well, it'll be over in April..

 

[hilts]

Lovely.

40 MPs elected on a Corbyn manifesto are dictating to the members they will leave the party if RLB is elected leader. Nothing to do with her plan to make all MP's face automatic reselection every GE.

Self centered pricks.

Believe me no one was elected on a Corbyn manifesto, also aren’t MPs supposed to have their own constituents welfare at the forefront of their decision making. The needs of the cult isn’t at the top of everyone’s list. In fact most don’t care about the cult at all.