Keir Starmer

Nellies left peg said:
Wouldn’t be surprised to see Angela Raynor put her hat in the ring as she obviously doesn’t read the room
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Do any of the fuckers who purport to be genuine about their intentions ?

Not from the evidence of their behaviours.

It's simply who is less of a liar, grifter than the next best thing since........................

The labour party are as self-destructive as the fucking tories ( before defecting to Reform as a 2nd chance that is ) who put Badenoch in place .
 
The blue phantom said:
She went from this. To then being on the other side. She's actually one horrible vile ****.
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Like Rayner using a former mate who's pro-Palestine, then accusing him of security breaches on her. It's all about the ego. Mind you, a Muslim PM would be piss funny to annoy Trump.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
It is empirically correct that living standards unquestionably rose from 1979 to 1990, and significantly so. And yes we were in the EU for all those years.

Think you need to finesse your research skills.
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You would expect that in any country of our ilk to improve living standards in those years, it was in spite of the EU that they did. Again, short memories abound, I bet you were not happily boasting how you were enjoying the Thatcher years, indeed talk of recession & public unrest were often the headlines, then of course the crash of 2008 was under the auspices of the EU Bloc, something we really never recovered from.
 
Heartofoakes64 said:
You would expect that in any country of our ilk to improve living standards in those years, it was in spite of the EU that they did. Again, short memories abound, I bet you were not happily boasting how you were enjoying the Thatcher years, indeed talk of recession & public unrest were often the headlines, then of course the crash of 2008 was under the auspices of the EU Bloc, something we really never recovered from.
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Your argument is all over the place, mate. Enjoy your day.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Your argument is all over the place, mate. Enjoy your day.
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In 1974, the British working class and trade unions were largely sceptical or opposed to the UK’s membership of the European Economic Community (EEC). Their attitude reflected economic, political, and ideological concerns rooted in the labour movement.

1. Trade Union and Labour Movement Views​

The Trades Union Congress (TUC) had adopted a broadly anti-EEC position by 1974. Its objections centred on four main issues:

  • The Common Agricultural Policy (CAP): seen as raising food prices and hurting British consumers.
  • Economic sovereignty: fears that EEC rules would constrain Britain’s ability to pursue full employment and national industrial policy.
  • Social and labour protections: concern that European integration prioritised market liberalisation over workers’ rights.
  • Political sovereignty: opposition to transferring legislative and fiscal powers from Parliament to European institutions.
The TUC’s 1974 report called for renegotiation to restore Parliament’s “sole power over legislation and taxation,” warning that this could only be achieved by withdrawal or major treaty revision

2. Working-Class Attitudes​

Among working-class voters, opinion was mixed but leaning towards opposition or scepticism. Many Labour supporters echoed the unions’ concerns that EEC membership threatened jobs, food prices, and Britain’s control over its economy. Survey data from early 1974 showed substantial divisions, but the Labour government’s renegotiation and subsequent 1975 referendum campaign helped shift some Labour voters to support continued membership despite grassroots unease

3. Divisions and Legacy​

Within the Labour Party and trade union movement, there were strong internal splits. The left wing and major unions (such as the Transport and General Workers’ Union) firmly opposed the EEC, while some moderate leaders supported conditional cooperation with Europe. The unions' anti-EEC campaign was often described as ineffective and fragmented, partly because of these internal divisions and the stronger, unified “Yes” campaign

In short: by 1974, most trade unions and many working-class voters opposed Britain’s EEC membership on economic and sovereignty grounds, though divisions within Labour and the eventual government campaign led to a shift in sentiment by the 1975 referendum.
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
It is empirically correct that living standards unquestionably rose from 1979 to 1990, and significantly so. And yes we were in the EU for all those years.

Think you need to finesse your research skills.
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A lot of these things depends how you chose to measure it - Personal incomes, GDP, GDP per capita. etc, Average wages, National and Personal levels of debt etc.
Your original post said 1975 - 1990 and we were up shit creek in 1975 probably through to mid/late 80's when we started recovering from the early 80's bloodbath and unemployment.
But if you measure 1990 datapoints against 1979 there was a big improvement - and we were undoubtedly in the EU (or whatever it was called then) over that period. Thatcher also secured a healthy "rebate" (£700m/pa ?) from the EU after the famous handbagging !
 
Rory Bluelow said:
A lot of these things depends how you chose to measure it - Personal incomes, GDP, GDP per capita. etc, Average wages, National and Personal levels of debt etc.
Your original post said 1975 - 1990 and we were up shit creek in 1975 probably through to mid/late 80's when we started recovering from the early 80's bloodbath and unemployment.
But if you measure 1990 datapoints against 1979 there was a big improvement - and we were undoubtedly in the EU (or whatever it was called then) over that period. Thatcher also secured a healthy "rebate" (£700m/pa ?) from the EU after the famous handbagging !
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I’m pretty sure my original post said 1975 to 2016 mate, although 1973 would have been more apposite tbf.
 
Bazzmand Show said:
Anyone who uses the phrase 'oh all sides in politics are the same', generally isn't worth having a debate on this over. It's lazy and in my experience many of them are silent right wingers anyway.
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Oh so that’s it then! We are all entitled to our views, I have no time for modern politics, for me the Tories & Labour are cheeks off the same arse, they are both pro mass immigration, both pro EU.
I grew up in the 70’s we had a Labour Party that represented the working class. We do not have that today. North London liberal elites like Starmer who haven’t got any connection with the working class, indeed they have no idea at all of the ambitions & aspirations of the working classes.
I will give you some advice too. Starting a post about debate with a sentence that effectively shuts down debate is passive aggressive & if you want to carry on debating intelligently you need to lose this confrontational attitude.
 
One Fan Clapping said:
I wish the press would be fucked off from outside Downing Street.

Who’s the gobby prick shouting at all ministers leaving.

At least they should be given behavioural rules. It’s embarrassing.
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That thing they do shouting out idiotic questions is so annoying isn’t it, you would think a rabid mob was there instead of so called journalists
 
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