Ketogenic Diet

Two Gun Bob said:
Unsweetened coconut oil is an excellent source of dietary fat with 90% of calories derived from fat and comes in 440ml tins from the supermarket as opposed to a palm tree : /

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/is-coconut-milk-keto

The keto works a treat but like other users I found it very difficult in the long term to fit in with my day to day life pattern. Also I am under no illution that in the end it's all to do with energy deficit and calories in and calories out. If we eat less and exercise more we lose weight and visa versa. Walking regularly has helped me immensely as have firing off the cakes, biccies and ice cream. I still drink every other day but mainly white spirits with low tonic. If I feel like smashing a jaffa cake or three mid week then I can do, but moderation being the key word and if you want a biscuit have one just dont eat the fooking packet. Weight in as of the 10th was 16.3 and height is 5,7 and a half and a docker. I have more chance of platting piss at my age of achieving a washboard stomach but as long as I can fit in my kecks I feel good to go. What I miss out on in the ripped I more than make up for by not maintaining side sod clumps on my head, shaving both nostrils, trimming the eye brows, using Dove soap daily and moisterizing with Q10 morning and night. I also have most of my own choppers except for a few I got in Goa. That is all except good luck on your journey tosh and it does get easier as the weeks go bye:
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It's not calories in / calories out and it never was - if only the biochemistry of the human body were so simple eh?

Some calories (sugar and particularly fructose) actually attack your liver, which is designed to convert fat not sugar, which makes your body store the sugar as fat and prevents you from accessing it, which makes you tired and hungry. Other colories (like err fat) just gives you energy so that you feel energised and don't feel hungry.

You should watch a few educational videos on youtube. The University of California puts some good lectures online and "Sugar, The Bitter Truth" is a must watch . . I must say that I used to believe the calories in / calories out bollox myself but not now that I've seen the science.
 
Ooo, my favourite thread has resurfaced.

Welcome to the lifestyle you're not meant to know about haha.

I bloody love it. Gimme those ketones!
 
OccupiedPalestineBlues said:
It's not calories in / calories out and it never was - if only the biochemistry of the human body were so simple eh?

Some calories (sugar and particularly fructose) actually attack your liver, which is designed to convert fat not sugar, which makes your body store the sugar as fat and prevents you from accessing it, which makes you tired and hungry. Other colories (like err fat) just gives you energy so that you feel energised and don't feel hungry.

You should watch a few educational videos on you-tube. The University of California puts some good lectures online and "Sugar, The Bitter Truth" is a must watch . . I must say that I used to believe the calories in / calories out bollox myself but not now that I've seen the science.
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You have made a decision based on what you have read and ingested, but that does not make any given hypothesis right or wrong. How do you make credence for the lost souls on weight watchers regimes or fight fighters or any calorie controlled diets that produce alarming results for their members, proving calorie in calorie out is not just a fallacy or fad when coupled with exercise.

I will give you a challenge on the Keto chap and that is over a month period I would like you to eat as much cheese, dairy, meat, nuts and seeds and as much lashings of fresh double cream as you wish and I guarantee you will increase weight. The following month I would like you to eat a balanced diet of whatever you wish of only 1000 - 1200 a day and I guarantee you will lose weight. Even the top keto scientists admit you cannot enter into keto and eat whatever you want proving the hypothesis of k in and k out. There have been numerous trials concerning keto and calorie deficit diets and over prolonged periods and the overall results in loss of weight are pretty negligible to be fair. Keto and Atkins etc help people lose weight more by better regulating insulin levels and helping the participant to lose weight by feeling more satiated with an elelment of ketosis of course. For every 3500 calories less than your bodies weekly requirement you will lose a pound of weight. On the Atkins or Keto initial weight los over a weeks or so is high due due to water weight being excreted from your body as you first restrict carbohydrates. Each gram of glycogen (from carbs) is stored in the body with at least of 3g of water. If you advocating a calorie controlled diet as being pure bollozx then maybe you too should watch a few educational videos on the you-tube but this time with a more open mind. The keto diet is very effective and for some a way of life but calorie restriction encapsulated with more exersise is also to be considered a winning formula.

All I am saying is that I found the keo and atkins to be restrictive by it's nature and is very difficult to maintain for the long term. But then again so is calorie restriction which is why we are a nation of fatties.
 
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I may try this again after learning I have a severe overgrowth of yeast, bacteria and mould in my gut.

‘Brain fog’ has been an issue of mine for most of my life and I suspect it’s partly due to a poorly functioning microbiome.
 
Dr Jacoby said:
I may try this again after learning I have a severe overgrowth of yeast, bacteria and mould in my gut.

‘Brain fog’ has been an issue of mine for most of my life and I suspect it’s partly due to a poorly functioning microbiome.
Click to expand...
Sounds pretty nasty that mate. Hope you can sort it out.

From a personal view, and it's no way as extreme as your situation, I find that my digestive system feels much better on keto. To put it bluntly, I hardly fart, my shit doesn't smell as rancid and my belly isn't as bloated.

When I have a break from keto, so like trips into Europe or a birthday weekend etc, the difference is there to see and feel. The loud, hideous farts return, my shit is much more awful and I'm bloated again. Same situation with my missus. When we go back to keto it's like we flush out the nasty stuff. We call it the 'bowel cleanser' when we have a really satisfying dump that feels like a lot of horribleness has been removed.

I have touched on the microbiome stuff, learning the basics about sugar hungry microbes and what not, and the links between your gut brain and your brain, and it's interesting and definitely something I'm going to look into further. I absolutely believe that keto works well in our guts because I experience it myself. Whether it'll help someone like yourself with a more complicated situation, I'm not sure. Hopefully it does.
 
I’ve been quietly on Keto for 3 months and have lost 3 and half stone with only walking the dog as exercise.
The first ten days were hard but after that I didn’t have any cravings and my appetite was suppressed straight away.
I’ve not counted any macros or calories Ive just kept away from all obvious carbs except carbs from veg and a trickle of sauce on bland chicken.
my snoring has stopped,
My blood pressure has returned to normal.
Brain fog lifted.
My ibs has disappeared.
Bloating gone.
Anxiety gone.
Sleeping like a baby.
My skins improved.
I can’t recommend it enough for a health kick.
it won’t be forever for me though as I find it would be very hard to maintain my social life (love a beer) I’ve practically locked myself away from any socials (good time maybe with Covid) and I’ve not had a single cheat meal.
Give me a shout if you want any info.
 
Two Gun Bob said:
You have made a decision based on what you have read and ingested, but that does not make any given hypothesis right or wrong. How do you make credence for the lost souls on weight watchers regimes or fight fighters or any calorie controlled diets that produce alarming results for their members, proving calorie in calorie out is not just a fallacy or fad when coupled with exercise.

I will give you a challenge on the Keto chap and that is over a month period I would like you to eat as much cheese, dairy, meat, nuts and seeds and as much lashings of fresh double cream as you wish and I guarantee you will increase weight. The following month I would like you to eat a balanced diet of whatever you wish of only 1000 - 1200 a day and I guarantee you will lose weight. Even the top keto scientists admit you cannot enter into keto and eat whatever you want proving the hypothesis of k in and k out. There have been numerous trials concerning keto and calorie deficit diets and over prolonged periods and the overall results in loss of weight are pretty negligible to be fair. Keto and Atkins etc help people lose weight more by better regulating insulin levels and helping the participant to lose weight by feeling more satiated with an elelment of ketosis of course. For every 3500 calories less than your bodies weekly requirement you will lose a pound of weight. On the Atkins or Keto initial weight los over a weeks or so is high due due to water weight being excreted from your body as you first restrict carbohydrates. Each gram of glycogen (from carbs) is stored in the body with at least of 3g of water. If you advocating a calorie controlled diet as being pure bollozx then maybe you too should watch a few educational videos on the you-tube but this time with a more open mind. The keto diet is very effective and for some a way of life but calorie restriction encapsulated with more exersise is also to be considered a winning formula.

All I am saying is that I found the keo and atkins to be restrictive by it's nature and is very difficult to maintain for the long term. But then again so is calorie restriction which is why we are a nation of fatties.
Click to expand...

It’s not hypothesis, it’s science and when I say you should read up on it I’m not being condescending, I’m being straight with you because even our medical professionals are still, in this day & age, spouting nutritional advice so badly informed that they’re killing our nation. GP’s typically do 1 week on often outdated nutrition theory during a 5 year education. IMO the only medical professionals who understand the damage that carbs cause are those who specialise in treating the effects of carbs - heart specialists, diabetes specialists - those guys learn up by working in the real world saving the lives of calorie in / calorie out dudes.

Re your oddball challenge;
I reiterate that I live a HFMPLC life so, as most will have guessed, I already eat as much cheese, fatty meat, heavy cream etc. as I can squeeze in. I’ve done this for many years, so your challenge was redundant before you threw it my way as I’ve not been in better shape since I was a teenager.

You stick with your cal in / out thinking and see where it gets you eh? ;-)
 
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OccupiedPalestineBlues said:
It’s not hypothesis, it’s science and when I say you should read up on it I’m not being condescending, I’m being straight with you because even our medical professionals are still, in this day & age, spouting nutritional advice so badly informed that they’re killing our nation. GP’s typically do 1 week on often outdated nutrition theory during a 5 year education. IMO the only medical professionals who understand the damage that carbs cause are those who specialise in treating the effects of carbs - heart specialists, diabetes specialists - those guys learn up by working in the real world saving the lives of calorie in / calorie out dudes.

Re your oddball challenge;
I reiterate that I live a HFMPLC life so, as most will have guessed, I already eat as much cheese, fatty meat, heavy cream etc. as I can squeeze in. I’ve done this for many years, so your challenge was redundant before you threw it my way as I’ve not been in better shape since I was a teenager.

You stick with your cal in / out thinking and see where it gets you eh? ;-)
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Good morning Mr Palestine: You appear to be under the impression that I am anti Keto which I am not. My previous two posts outlining a mindset that overall weight loss can only be achieved by a calorie deficit. With Keto this becomes easier to manage as hunger becomes more regulated and rapid weight loss achievable under the regime with protein being one of the most satiating macronutrients alongside fat.

On a lighter note the challenge I set out above is not oddball by nature, because if you consumed daily two 440ml cans of coconut milk coupled with a 400g block of cathedral cheddar washed down with a 300ml pot of double cream for your bullet proof coffees, a helping of 300 gram of dry roasted nobbies nuts and a nice slab of T-Bone you would gain weight. Likewise if you popped around to my croft and I walled you up for the month on a 1000 Kcal diet I promise you would dissapear chap. You may not agree with any of this as you have already drawn battle lines with the Keto so anything outside of your bubble is to be regarded as heresy and cast down in te pit ; )

For every medical professional or dietitian advocating keto I will give you one that advocates a balanced diet and calorific approach to weight loss. If only there was some sort of pattern here. Keto may be magic, but as far as we know there are no studies that support this idea. The overall scientific consensus is that eating too much will make you fat. The segment below is an interesting read, although it is not my intention to change something you enjoy doing. If it makes you feel good and it gets you the desired results than fair fooks. I will repeat what I have previously said and that is Keto is a great way to lose weight and regulate appetite but it's not the only way and calory in calorie out regardless of any eating regime has to be a considered factor. Having said that if I had just booked a last minute cheeky beach holiday then an 800 calorie combined Keto would be my port of call to get me trimmed down for the poolside. Keto is pure brilliant but it's hard to fit into everyday living over a prolonged period.

www.ruled.me

Keto Calories Counting: Should You Count Calories On Keto?

Counting calories has benefits and might be helpful for people who follow the ketogenic diet. Find out our exact process in our article.
www.ruled.me www.ruled.me
 
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FantasyIreland said:
Its so simple

Use carbs when required.......prior to exercise,at times of intensity or when in recovery.If you are sat on your arse all day,then severely limit your intake.

Base your food choices on lean protein,fibrous veg and health fat - add or subtract the starchy carbs accordingly.

Call that lifestyle whatever you want!
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We just eat too much food in general and IMO eating a lot can kill your metabolism specially as you get older. I know people who "Need" 3 meals a day with top ups inbetween when in reality they could cut their intake by half and still have a healthy diet.
 
DenisLawBackHeel74 said:
how do you rate your workouts on a keto diet?

i found that i was much weaker and easily tired with weight work outs so at the minute I’m off the keto just so I can lift heavier.
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I don't go to the gym to lift heavier, I'm 58 so it's more about maintenance and mobility now. Having said that I do a fairly decent weights hiit workout.
To answer your question, my workouts are good. I think when your body is fully keto adapted you only need tiny amounts of carbs to fully function but you can stay on the keto 'diet' and add small amounts of carbs through high carb veg if that is going to help you achieve your goals in the gym.
Each individual is different and finding the right balance for yourself is the best way forward IMHO.
 
Two Gun Bob said:
Good morning Mr Palestine: You appear to be under the impression that I am anti Keto which I am not. My previous two posts outlining a mindset that overall weight loss can only be achieved by a calorie deficit. With Keto this becomes easier to manage as hunger becomes more regulated and rapid weight loss achievable under the regime with protein being one of the most satiating macronutrients alongside fat.

On a lighter note the challenge I set out above is not oddball by nature, because if you consumed daily two 440ml cans of coconut milk coupled with a 400g block of cathedral cheddar washed down with a 300ml pot of double cream for your bullet proof coffees, a helping of 300 gram of dry roasted nobbies nuts and a nice slab of T-Bone you would gain weight. Likewise if you popped around to my croft and I walled you up for the month on a 1000 Kcal diet I promise you would dissapear chap. You may not agree with any of this as you have already drawn battle lines with the Keto so anything outside of your bubble is to be regarded as heresy and cast down in te pit ; )

For every medical professional or dietitian advocating keto I will give you one that advocates a balanced diet and calorific approach to weight loss. If only there was some sort of pattern here. Keto may be magic, but as far as we know there are no studies that support this idea. The overall scientific consensus is that eating too much will make you fat. The segment below is an interesting read, although it is not my intention to change something you enjoy doing. If it makes you feel good and it gets you the desired results than fair fooks. I will repeat what I have previously said and that is Keto is a great way to lose weight and regulate appetite but it's not the only way and calory in calorie out regardless of any eating regime has to be a considered factor. Having said that if I had just booked a last minute cheeky beach holiday then an 800 calorie combined Keto would be my port of call to get me trimmed down for the poolside. Keto is pure brilliant but it's hard to fit into everyday living over a prolonged period.

www.ruled.me

Keto Calories Counting: Should You Count Calories On Keto?

Counting calories has benefits and might be helpful for people who follow the ketogenic diet. Find out our exact process in our article.
www.ruled.me www.ruled.me
Click to expand...

I didn't say you we're anti keto. I said your notion that calorie in / calorie out is a valid scientific approach to managing the weight we carry is absolute nonsense.

I'm also pleased to add that calorie control of any kind is ridiculous because if you eat a fat based diet your weight controls itself and your body knows best.
I've spent tine in the Peruvian Amazon, living with native inhabitants and they follow what is in essence a HFMPLC 'diet'. You don't see fat people, you don't see skinny people, everybody eats as much as they like whenever they like.
Sometimes they don't eat for 2 or 3 days then feast on a kill, sometimes they eat little and often.
Nobody wears a watch, there isn't a bell for dinner time, they don't know what calories are and wouldn't care to, their appetites are managed by their own bodies. They function on fat as their main source of energy and they're as fit as butchers dogs.
Also, their very low use of carbs means that nobody has type 2 diabetes, they never need to see a dentist and they wouldn't know what a heart attack was.
Basically, if you eat the right foods you don't need any other input as your body knows best.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Its so simple

Use carbs when required.......prior to exercise,at times of intensity or when in recovery.If you are sat on your arse all day,then severely limit your intake.

Base your food choices on lean protein,fibrous veg and health fat - add or subtract the starchy carbs accordingly.

Call that lifestyle whatever you want!
Click to expand...

I completely agree. I'm nearly down to the weight I've been aiming for having adopted a new diet combined with 250 minutes of cardio a week. Lost over a stone since the beginning of lockdown.

I've also never drank as much water as I'm drinking now, I never knew the impact dehydration has on your weight and metabolism.

My weakness/battle is boozing at the weekend combined with nibbles/takeaway food. So hard with winter approaching but I'm avoiding booze and treats this weekend.
 
Northernstorirs said:
I completely agree. I'm nearly down to the weight I've been aiming for having adopted a new diet combined with 250 minutes of cardio a week. Lost over a stone since the beginning of lockdown.

I've also never drank as much water as I'm drinking now, I never knew the impact dehydration has on your weight and metabolism.

My weakness/battle is boozing at the weekend combined with nibbles/takeaway food. So hard with winter approaching but I'm avoiding booze and treats this weekend.
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Just introduce more change slowly,it then lessens the impact and keeps your sanity! If you haven't already,get on the weights too if you can - thats where real change will be seen.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Just introduce more change slowly,it then lessens the impact and keeps your sanity! If you haven't already,get on the weights too if you can - thats where real change will be seen.
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Thanks pal.

Please can I ask for your advice on the weight front? I use to do weight sessions 4 x a week. I wanted to just be toned but instead built muscle around my shoulders, back and chest. My worry with doing weights again is putting weight and bulk back on. Should I just be using lower weights and more reps/sets?
 
Northernstorirs said:
Thanks pal.

Please can I ask for your advice on the weight front? I use to do weight sessions 4 x a week. I wanted to just be toned but instead built muscle around my shoulders, back and chest. My worry with doing weights again is putting weight and bulk back on. Should I just be using lower weights and more reps/sets?
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Lol,guys would kill for your 'problem'!

Yes,along with supersets/giant sets.Also use fats as a recovery source,rather than carbs,around workouts.If you really don't want to gain much muscle then maybe stick to bodyweight stuff.

Whats your current weight and height if you don't mind? And is there a reason for staying light/lean?
 
FantasyIreland said:
Lol,guys would kill for your 'problem'!

Yes,along with supersets/giant sets.Also use fats as a recovery source,rather than carbs,around workouts.If you really don't want to gain much muscle then maybe stick to bodyweight stuff.

Whats your current weight and height if you don't mind? And is there a reason for staying light/lean?
Click to expand...

As a bit of a backstory, I played footy in my 20s and when I was around 23/24 I started using weights more often. It was mainly to get bigger to help when playing football and to also look more built as I use to be quite skinny. This was under no guidance or advice. I stopped playing football but continued doing weights (mixed with cardio) in the gym just to look toned and also out of habit.

I'm now in my early 30s and during lockdown wanted to press the reset button with my approach to fitness and diet. I know this sounds weird but I don't like the look of my build and clothing is/was a weird fit (which has improved since my new diet and cario regime). I think it is a result of not having any focus on strategy and just sticking to routine/staying in comfort zone as opposed to reassessing my fitness goals etc.

I am 6.1ft and around 13.8st and over the recommended BMI level for my age. I'm aiming to be below the 13st mark.
 
Northernstorirs said:
As a bit of a backstory, I played footy in my 20s and when I was around 23/24 I started using weights more often. It was mainly to get bigger to help when playing football and to also look more built as I use to be quite skinny. This was under no guidance or advice. I stopped playing football but continued doing weights (mixed with cardio) in the gym just to look toned and also out of habit.

I'm now in my early 30s and during lockdown wanted to press the reset button with my approach to fitness and diet. I know this sounds weird but I don't like the look of my build and clothing is/was a weird fit (which has improved since my new diet and cario regime). I think it is a result of not having any focus on strategy and just sticking to routine/staying in comfort zone as opposed to reassessing my fitness goals etc.

I am 6.1ft and around 13.8st and over the recommended BMI level for my age. I'm aiming to be below the 13st mark.
Click to expand...
Perfect age to get good results.I had it in mind you may be lighter than you are,so that's good news in my book.
With a combined effort of bodyweight/superset/giant set training and the lower carbon diet you should quickly achieve your desired look.Maybe try fasted training,just a double espresso as fuel.
 
FantasyIreland said:
Perfect age to get good results.I had it in mind you may be lighter than you are,so that's good news in my book.
With a combined effort of bodyweight/superset/giant set training and the lower carbon diet you should quickly achieve your desired look.Maybe try fasted training,just a double espresso as fuel.
Click to expand...

Thanks pal, appreciate the advice. I will start doing more bodyweight exercises combined with my cardio plan.
 
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