Mancini out/Mancini in

[Damocles]

We are probably not the best, and we're by no means the worst.

My resentment stems from the fact that when the takeover happened, we were suddenly thrust from midtable contention into people talking about us as eventual champions of Europe, which I believe will happen. For years we have looked at the top four as this cartel of arrogant bastards that want everything served on a silver platter, supporting a club with no connection to its community. We had the chance to be the anti-thesis of all of this, to be the fans that we are/were but successful. To laugh at relegation and championships in the same way because we, better than anyone, understood that neither of them last forever. The club has been outstanding in keeping the vibe of the fans alive, and with the various fan days, the cheap season ticket, the way they've reached out to us and brought an extra layer of communication has been fantastic. The club has done us proud since the takeover in assuring that they don't become this huge marketing machine that is essentially a nomad club. We are now more associated with our city than we have been in a long time.
They've done their bit, I just don't feel that we have kept our sense of perspective and have all gotten that carried away with success that we are forgetting why we are City fans in the first place. It certainly isn't to win trophies anyway.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

They've done their bit, I just don't feel that we have kept our sense of perspective and have all gotten that carried away with success that we are forgetting why we are City fans in the first place. It certainly isn't to win trophies anyway.

Fuck that Dammers.

I've been trecking around England for 30 years watching us capitulate on the big occasion. I've spent thousands of pounds and a ridiculous amount of emotional energy watching us fuck things up, or blow our chances.

I've got happy memories of watching City in that time, of course, but those happy memories are not of us being shit, even though I never deserted the club.

The happy memories are when we occasionally got it right. The promotions, the derby victories, the cup runs.

I want the trophies. Bring it on. I've served my time.

Our time is now. Let's not blow it.

 

[BobKowalski]

We are probably not the best, and we're by no means the worst.

My resentment stems from the fact that when the takeover happened, we were suddenly thrust from midtable contention into people talking about us as eventual champions of Europe, which I believe will happen. For years we have looked at the top four as this cartel of arrogant bastards that want everything served on a silver platter, supporting a club with no connection to its community. We had the chance to be the anti-thesis of all of this, to be the fans that we are/were but successful. To laugh at relegation and championships in the same way because we, better than anyone, understood that neither of them last forever. The club has been outstanding in keeping the vibe of the fans alive, and with the various fan days, the cheap season ticket, the way they've reached out to us and brought an extra layer of communication has been fantastic. The club has done us proud since the takeover in assuring that they don't become this huge marketing machine that is essentially a nomad club. We are now more associated with our city than we have been in a long time.
They've done their bit, I just don't feel that we have kept our sense of perspective and have all gotten that carried away with success that we are forgetting why we are City fans in the first place. It certainly isn't to win trophies anyway.

There is an inevitability about it though. The previous situation or status of City did go along way to shaping the character of the fans just as the new situation we find ourselves in will also shape the character of the fans. Wealth corrupts and unlimited wealth corrupts absolutely.

Throw in the access to media where every fan has a voice and an opinion with every fan battling to have that opinion heard; which in turn leads to aggressive posturing and unreasonable positions being held simply because we can.

When a player makes a mistake we demand he be replaced because we can now replace him no matter the cost. Manager struggling to get the team working? Ditto.

Its mob rule at the best of times and when you have mob rule fuelled by money it ain't pretty.

 

[Mike C]

We are probably not the best, and we're by no means the worst.

My resentment stems from the fact that when the takeover happened, we were suddenly thrust from midtable contention into people talking about us as eventual champions of Europe, which I believe will happen. For years we have looked at the top four as this cartel of arrogant bastards that want everything served on a silver platter, supporting a club with no connection to its community. We had the chance to be the anti-thesis of all of this, to be the fans that we are/were but successful. To laugh at relegation and championships in the same way because we, better than anyone, understood that neither of them last forever. The club has been outstanding in keeping the vibe of the fans alive, and with the various fan days, the cheap season ticket, the way they've reached out to us and brought an extra layer of communication has been fantastic. The club has done us proud since the takeover in assuring that they don't become this huge marketing machine that is essentially a nomad club. We are now more associated with our city than we have been in a long time.
They've done their bit, I just don't feel that we have kept our sense of perspective and have all gotten that carried away with success that we are forgetting why we are City fans in the first place. It certainly isn't to win trophies anyway.

To be fair though, what we're talking about isn't City fans reaction to "success" - we haven't had "success" yet.

What we're talking about is City fans terrified that we're going to fu*k up the only opportunity we're ever likely to get to join the (self-styled) "elite". Given that, the odd descent into crassness can probably be forgiven?

If/when we do achive success, sure we'll see the old City attitude re-assert itself...

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Poitn taken Bob, but you've hinted at the biggest factor at play.

The rise of the web and forums.

Regular use of forums like Bluemoon gives a distorted sense of the reality of being a football fan. We haven't really changed in the stadium, I don't think.

It's the same people who sit around me who it always was, largely.

Forums magnify the negativity disproportionally.<br /><br />-- Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:05 pm --<br /><br />

What we're talking about is City fans terrified that we're going to fu*k up the only opportunity we're ever likely to get to join the (self-styled) "elite". Given that, the odd descent into crassness can probably be forgiven?

If/when we do achive success, sure we'll see the old City attitude re-assert itself...

That's a good point too.

That's why I couldn't help but be largely disappointed with last season.

So near and yet so far.

We fucked up the league derbies, we fucked up the cup semis, we fucked up the FA Cup and we fucked up in the chase for the Champs League.

When it came to the crunch, we reverted to type.

 

[ali benarbia's studs]

is this the hokie pokie?????

 

[Gary James]

but we do have a history. Billy Meredith might be part of our shared Mancunian history; luckily though, Bert Trautman is all ours. We had Hyde Road, then Maine Road and used to put a hundred thousand fans in them. From Tom Maley through to Wilf Wild. From Les McDowell to Joe Mercer. From Tony Book to Roberto Mancini. Our history stretches back 120 years, and is full of ups and down, bankruptcies and riches, relegations and successes. I implore you guys to pick up a Gary James' book and immerse yourselves in our long and interesting history. So next time the rags come at you with a "you have no history" remark, you can say something better than "so what?".

It's funny actually - the reason I started writing about City in the late 80s is because I went into several bookshops in Manchester (Sherratt & Hughes, WHS, Waterstones, Dillons, Wilshaws, Hatchards - almost all gone now!) and couldn't find a book on City, but I saw shelves full of books on Utd, Everton, Liverpool and Arsenal.

So I wrote because I felt our stories needed to be out there (the only City history book available in the mid 80s was Andy Ward's 96 page Manchester City Story; I loved it, but it was the only book that had been published between 1969 and 1984 telling our history; and prior to that there had been a book in the 30s and one in the late 60s, plus a few player biogs and the Peter Gardner books).

In 1997 Manchester The Greatest City came out and that sold out (about 5,000 copies) within a year. At the time, it was the most detailed football club history of all time (all clubs, not just City) but significantly City were enduring their worst spell on the pitch.

Now things are looking extremely positive for City I wonder what place our history actually has. I've realised that a lot of supporters have no interest in where we've come from, and I guess that's fine. I didn't really care about City's history before the 80s. Maybe that was because of my age at the time, or maybe it was because City were a power. It was only when we lost our position that history seemed relevant.

Personally, of course, I do know now that history is very important because it teaches us so much about the present as well as the past. When I attend games I still have questions in my head that I am determined to find answers to; when I read Bluemoon I see so many people ask questions that our history answers - why do we wear Blue (I know some think it's because of the Masons, but there's no proof and we wore Royal Blue and White stripes before we selected Cambridge Blue in the 1890s)?; was Meredith more Blue than Red?; what does the eagle mean?; were we the last all-English team to win a European trophy; what's the significance of our maroon away shirt?; Who selected red & black stripes? How great were we before Swales?: What record is 84,569? How great was Trautmann/Bell/Swift/Meredith/Revie/Watson/Summerbee/Dickov/Lake? Which was the first Manchester side to win a major trophy? and so on.

I know this isn't about the Mancini in/Out business but it is relevant to Damocles well-put comments. At various times in our history we have wanted different things. When we seemed dead and buried in the mid-late 90s we knew we had to give Joe Royle time (we may have been unhappy with his decision not to play Kinkladze, but we knew he had our best interests at heart); now we feel as if success is coming and we can't wait. I think that's why the manager (whoever that is at the time because there will always be someone unhappy) becomes a topic many people have a strong view on.

Sorry for waffling on. I guess the point I'm trying to make is - when we struggle we focus on our history; when we find success we tend to put it to one side. It's natural (think about how many times people have written on here that a United fan doesn't 'know' his club's history).

Think about how strong our story would be if we found success AND remembered our history.

 

[shadygiz]

but we do have a history. Billy Meredith might be part of our shared Mancunian history; luckily though, Bert Trautman is all ours. We had Hyde Road, then Maine Road and used to put a hundred thousand fans in them. From Tom Maley through to Wilf Wild. From Les McDowell to Joe Mercer. From Tony Book to Roberto Mancini. Our history stretches back 120 years, and is full of ups and down, bankruptcies and riches, relegations and successes. I implore you guys to pick up a Gary James' book and immerse yourselves in our long and interesting history. So next time the rags come at you with a "you have no history" remark, you can say something better than "so what?".

It's funny actually - the reason I started writing about City in the late 80s is because I went into several bookshops in Manchester (Sherratt & Hughes, WHS, Waterstones, Dillons, Wilshaws, Hatchards - almost all gone now!) and couldn't find a book on City, but I saw shelves full of books on Utd, Everton, Liverpool and Arsenal.

So I wrote because I felt our stories needed to be out there (the only City history book available in the mid 80s was Andy Ward's 96 page Manchester City Story; I loved it, but it was the only book that had been published between 1969 and 1984 telling our history; and prior to that there had been a book in the 30s and one in the late 60s, plus a few player biogs and the Peter Gardner books).

In 1997 Manchester The Greatest City came out and that sold out (about 5,000 copies) within a year. At the time, it was the most detailed football club history of all time (all clubs, not just City) but significantly City were enduring their worst spell on the pitch.

Now things are looking extremely positive for City I wonder what place our history actually has. I've realised that a lot of supporters have no interest in where we've come from, and I guess that's fine. I didn't really care about City's history before the 80s. Maybe that was because of my age at the time, or maybe it was because City were a power. It was only when we lost our position that history seemed relevant.

Personally, of course, I do know now that history is very important because it teaches us so much about the present as well as the past. When I attend games I still have questions in my head that I am determined to find answers to; when I read Bluemoon I see so many people ask questions that our history answers - why do we wear Blue (I know some think it's because of the Masons, but there's no proof and we wore Royal Blue and White stripes before we selected Cambridge Blue in the 1890s)?; was Meredith more Blue than Red?; what does the eagle mean?; were we the last all-English team to win a European trophy; what's the significance of our maroon away shirt?; Who selected red & black stripes? How great were we before Swales?: What record is 84,569? How great was Trautmann/Bell/Swift/Meredith/Revie/Watson/Summerbee/Dickov/Lake? Which was the first Manchester side to win a major trophy? and so on.

I know this isn't about the Mancini in/Out business but it is relevant to Damocles well-put comments. At various times in our history we have wanted different things. When we seemed dead and buried in the mid-late 90s we knew we had to give Joe Royle time (we may have been unhappy with his decision not to play Kinkladze, but we knew he had our best interests at heart); now we feel as if success is coming and we can't wait. I think that's why the manager (whoever that is at the time because there will always be someone unhappy) becomes a topic many people have a strong view on.

Sorry for waffling on. I guess the point I'm trying to make is - when we struggle we focus on our history; when we find success we tend to put it to one side. It's natural (think about how many times people have written on here that a United fan doesn't 'know' his club's history).

Think about how strong our story would be if we found success AND remembered our history.

fantastic post fella ;)

 

[johnny crossan]

but we do have a history. Billy Meredith might be part of our shared Mancunian history; luckily though, Bert Trautman is all ours. We had Hyde Road, then Maine Road and used to put a hundred thousand fans in them. From Tom Maley through to Wilf Wild. From Les McDowell to Joe Mercer. From Tony Book to Roberto Mancini. Our history stretches back 120 years, and is full of ups and down, bankruptcies and riches, relegations and successes. I implore you guys to pick up a Gary James' book and immerse yourselves in our long and interesting history. So next time the rags come at you with a "you have no history" remark, you can say something better than "so what?".

It's funny actually - the reason I started writing about City in the late 80s is because I went into several bookshops in Manchester (Sherratt & Hughes, WHS, Waterstones, Dillons, Wilshaws, Hatchards - almost all gone now!) and couldn't find a book on City, but I saw shelves full of books on Utd, Everton, Liverpool and Arsenal.

So I wrote because I felt our stories needed to be out there (the only City history book available in the mid 80s was Andy Ward's 96 page Manchester City Story; I loved it, but it was the only book that had been published between 1969 and 1984 telling our history; and prior to that there had been a book in the 30s and one in the late 60s, plus a few player biogs and the Peter Gardner books).

In 1997 Manchester The Greatest City came out and that sold out (about 5,000 copies) within a year. At the time, it was the most detailed football club history of all time (all clubs, not just City) but significantly City were enduring their worst spell on the pitch.

Now things are looking extremely positive for City I wonder what place our history actually has. I've realised that a lot of supporters have no interest in where we've come from, and I guess that's fine. I didn't really care about City's history before the 80s. Maybe that was because of my age at the time, or maybe it was because City were a power. It was only when we lost our position that history seemed relevant.

Personally, of course, I do know now that history is very important because it teaches us so much about the present as well as the past. When I attend games I still have questions in my head that I am determined to find answers to; when I read Bluemoon I see so many people ask questions that our history answers - why do we wear Blue (I know some think it's because of the Masons, but there's no proof and we wore Royal Blue and White stripes before we selected Cambridge Blue in the 1890s)?; was Meredith more Blue than Red?; what does the eagle mean?; were we the last all-English team to win a European trophy; what's the significance of our maroon away shirt?; Who selected red & black stripes? How great were we before Swales?: What record is 84,569? How great was Trautmann/Bell/Swift/Meredith/Revie/Watson/Summerbee/Dickov/Lake? Which was the first Manchester side to win a major trophy? and so on.

I know this isn't about the Mancini in/Out business but it is relevant to Damocles well-put comments. At various times in our history we have wanted different things. When we seemed dead and buried in the mid-late 90s we knew we had to give Joe Royle time (we may have been unhappy with his decision not to play Kinkladze, but we knew he had our best interests at heart); now we feel as if success is coming and we can't wait. I think that's why the manager (whoever that is at the time because there will always be someone unhappy) becomes a topic many people have a strong view on.

Sorry for waffling on. I guess the point I'm trying to make is - when we struggle we focus on our history; when we find success we tend to put it to one side. It's natural (think about how many times people have written on here that a United fan doesn't 'know' his club's history).

Think about how strong our story would be if we found success AND remembered our history.

thread reaches all time high, well done GJ but what does the eagle mean?!

 

[halpo123]

i think its totally diffferent to the hughes situation, people wanted hughes out BEFORE a ball was kicked, he dared to have played for the rags, the same people would have been gutted had city done well under him, worst still there were people on here wanted city to lose in order for him to be sacked. pathetic.
as for mancini i dont think anybody wants rid of him, even last season when lets face it he fucked up big time in some games i dont think many wanted him gone.he just had to learn what the prem is all about.the players he has bought seem perfect for an assault on the prem title, good players and with a flair and grit mix.his man management will be better as he has his own players in, there was bound to have been a group of hughes players miffed at his sacking.so all in all its all geared for success so i dont think the in/out subject will pop up, if we are there or there abouts we will have january to tweak things so xmas(as last season) is too soon to sack any manager, if we finish 5th next season it wont make one jot of difference what is said on here as the owners will make that decision for us.

not sure many on here wanted city to lose

-- Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:10 am --

Does anybody else have this nauseating feeling that history will repeat itself this season and that by Xmas a large proportion of fans will be calling for Mancini to be dumped due to his, shall we say, slightly negative tactics ?

Xmas? I'm not waiting that long!

He'll probably have spent more money than Hughes and have had a full pre-season with his signings. If we don't get off to a good start then people are entitled to have a pop. The knives were certainly out for Hughes in the early part of last season so the deluded Mancini lovers can hardly complain if he gets the same treatment.

Anyone think we shouldn't be well in the top 4 after the first half-dozen games this season?

you sound like you want it to go`s tits up ...shame on you

-- Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:22 am --

short of relegation then we must keep Mancini -

Mancini must see out his contract - i never felt that way with Hughes and all the City fans on here need to support the manager for the coming seasons - relegation apart

PMSL at your naivity.

Mancini kept the job by the skin of his teeth lat year and if he fails again this season he'll be gone. Depending on the availability of other managers, by Christmas I'd say.

The Shiekh is not going to keep throwing money at this project without seeing some tangible success. He doesn't care that we lost to York 11 years ago or that some fans are sick of changing managers.

I'd say if we are not comfortably in the top 4 at Christmas he'll be gone.

WE will certainly be more than good enough.

Do I think he'll succeed? I pray he will but I have a gut feeling that he won't.

if he`d been anyway near the skin of his teeth... he would have been sacked
how unprofessional do you think we are<br /><br />-- Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:28 am --<br /><br />

i think its totally diffferent to the hughes situation, people wanted hughes out BEFORE a ball was kicked, he dared to have played for the rags, the same people would have been gutted had city done well under him, worst still there were people on here wanted city to lose in order for him to be sacked. pathetic.
as for mancini i dont think anybody wants rid of him, even last season when lets face it he fucked up big time in some games i dont think many wanted him gone.he just had to learn what the prem is all about.the players he has bought seem perfect for an assault on the prem title, good players and with a flair and grit mix.his man management will be better as he has his own players in, there was bound to have been a group of hughes players miffed at his sacking.so all in all its all geared for success so i dont think the in/out subject will pop up, if we are there or there abouts we will have january to tweak things so xmas(as last season) is too soon to sack any manager, if we finish 5th next season it wont make one jot of difference what is said on here as the owners will make that decision for us.

not sure many on here wanted city to lose

-- Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:10 am --

Xmas? I'm not waiting that long!

He'll probably have spent more money than Hughes and have had a full pre-season with his signings. If we don't get off to a good start then people are entitled to have a pop. The knives were certainly out for Hughes in the early part of last season so the deluded Mancini lovers can hardly complain if he gets the same treatment.

Anyone think we shouldn't be well in the top 4 after the first half-dozen games this season?

you sound like you want it to go`s tits up ...shame on you

-- Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:22 am --

PMSL at your naivity.

Mancini kept the job by the skin of his teeth lat year and if he fails again this season he'll be gone. Depending on the availability of other managers, by Christmas I'd say.

The Shiekh is not going to keep throwing money at this project without seeing some tangible success. He doesn't care that we lost to York 11 years ago or that some fans are sick of changing managers.

I'd say if we are not comfortably in the top 4 at Christmas he'll be gone.

WE will certainly be more than good enough.

Do I think he'll succeed? I pray he will but I have a gut feeling that he won't.

if he`d been anyway near the skin of his teeth... he would have been sacked
how unprofessional do you think we are

look at me i got the holy trinity three in a row