Mancini v Pellegrini so far ......

[totalfootball]

I doubt if he did allow it. The truth is that we were up against one of the three truly world class teams in the game, and we were playing them in the first of a six game mini league, meaning that it was important to get at least ten points on the board before being able to relax in later games. With this in mind, Bayern were already going to be up for it, and at the same time they would have been determined to put down a marker for a new kid on the block team such as City.

Your post basically amounts to "We were scoobied from the start against Bayern because unfortunately for us it was an important game for them so they really tried"

So I'm going to disregard any depth to this discussion too and simply say this -

No team containing players of the ability and statue of Hart, Kompany, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure, Navas, Nasri and Aguero should EVER be outplayed to that extent.

As you say, a team with the players you name should never, on paper, be outplayed to such an extent, but remember that we have struggled against teams like Sunderland, Cardiff and Southampton with many of these same players, and none of these teams could never live with Bayern.

and why are we struggling against sunderland, cardiff and southampton ?

there is one thing these three teams have in common, guess what it is.

 

[aguero93:20]

Your post basically amounts to "We were scoobied from the start against Bayern because unfortunately for us it was an important game for them so they really tried"

So I'm going to disregard any depth to this discussion too and simply say this -

No team containing players of the ability and statue of Hart, Kompany, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure, Navas, Nasri and Aguero should EVER be outplayed to that extent.

As you say, a team with the players you name should never, on paper, be outplayed to such an extent, but remember that we have struggled against teams like Sunderland, Cardiff and Southampton with many of these same players, and none of these teams could never live with Bayern.

and why are we struggling against sunderland, cardiff and southampton ?

there is one thing these three teams have in common, guess what it is.

red in their strip?

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Your post basically amounts to "We were scoobied from the start against Bayern because unfortunately for us it was an important game for them so they really tried"

So I'm going to disregard any depth to this discussion too and simply say this -

No team containing players of the ability and statue of Hart, Kompany, Fernandinho, Yaya Toure, Navas, Nasri and Aguero should EVER be outplayed to that extent.

As you say, a team with the players you name should never, on paper, be outplayed to such an extent, but remember that we have struggled against teams like Sunderland, Cardiff and Southampton with many of these same players, and none of these teams could never live with Bayern.

and why are we struggling against sunderland, cardiff and southampton ?

there is one thing these three teams have in common, guess what it is.

They're all near the sea?

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

As you say, a team with the players you name should never, on paper, be outplayed to such an extent, but remember that we have struggled against teams like Sunderland, Cardiff and Southampton with many of these same players, and none of these teams could never live with Bayern.

and why are we struggling against sunderland, cardiff and southampton ?

there is one thing these three teams have in common, guess what it is.

They're all near the sea?

I wish he'd tell us. I can't go out until he does!

 

[Lancet Fluke]

and why are we struggling against sunderland, cardiff and southampton ?

there is one thing these three teams have in common, guess what it is.

They're all near the sea?

I wish he'd tell us. I can't go out until he does!

My prediction is that the answer is not going to be worth staying in for.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

Pellegrini has yet to show that he's a tactician. He seems to be someone who has one style of play which is he sticks to 98% if the time, even when we are getting outplayed. I still cannot believe he allowed Bayern to piss all over us for 75 minutes at the Etihad.

I doubt if he did allow it. The truth is that we were up against one of the three truly world class teams in the game, and we were playing them in the first of a six game mini league, meaning that it was important to get at least ten points on the board before being able to relax in later games. With this in mind, Bayern were already going to be up for it, and at the same time they would have been determined to put down a marker for a new kid on the block team such as City.

He did allow it. His formation and tactics meant that Bayern could play exactly how they wanted to and did against us. We were open, outnumbered in midfield (greatly!), and didn't press the ball even though we played a high line. None of anything he did before the 71st minute that night made any sense nor gave us any chance to not get battered. They had time and space on the ball from the first kick off until something clicked in his head and he brought Silva and Milner on after 71minutes and made it 5 in midfield for us. Even then we were still outnumbered because they were playing with no striker but at least it helped. But by then it was too late.

The best passer of the ball in the Prem is Yaya Toure yet look at his stats v Schweinsteiger in that game:
...........................................................................Yaya Toure.........................Bastian Schweinsteiger
[Source: Opta]
Passes......................................................................43................................................73
Passing accuracy..................................................81.4%.........................................94.5%
Passing accuracy (opposing half)...................70.8%.........................................98%
Long passes...........................................................8..................................................2
Short passes.........................................................35.................................................71
Minutes played....................................................90.................................................76
Aerial duels won...................................................0...................................................1

and SS only played 76minutes! Yaya made 118 passes against Norwich with 93% passing accuracy, although it was a completely different game against a far inferior team, there's no way the best passer of the ball in England has that much of a difference in performance just because the other team are really good and are well up for it. Schweinsteiger had more time and space and more options to pass to in midfield (since he had fewer long passes) the whole time he was on the pitch; whereas Yaya's passing accuracy is usually around 92% yet it was 22-24% lower than that in Bayern's half. When Yaya had the ball men in midfield to pass to, he was subsequently closed down easily and lost the ball.

It was a tactical disaster. The thing is, i'm seeing it - to a far lesser extent, granted - in Premier League games too. It was a problem against Hull, it was the problem against Southampton.

 

[Blue Theatre]

I could be totally wrong but I get the feeling that part of the reason we are so attacking and open is that Pellegrini is convinced that we have a fantastic team who should be thrashing everyone, home and away. Hence the all-out attacking home and away, regardless of opposition. He was even happy to take on Bayern and attack.
He seems genuinely bewildered when we lose away - he just can't fathom how our players can have lost to someone like Cardiff, shaking his head and using words like "amazing", "incredible" and "disbelief" in his post-match.

Is part of the problem that the only other time he had a really great squad of players (Real Madrid) he did win almost every week, home and away ? But unfortunately, the Premier League is not like La Liga ... everyone in the PL has decent players, big squads, vocal home support, and tries really hard. As Cardiff, Villa, Sunderland, etc have showed.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Pellegrini has yet to show that he's a tactician. He seems to be someone who has one style of play which is he sticks to 98% if the time, even when we are getting outplayed. I still cannot believe he allowed Bayern to piss all over us for 75 minutes at the Etihad.

I doubt if he did allow it. The truth is that we were up against one of the three truly world class teams in the game, and we were playing them in the first of a six game mini league, meaning that it was important to get at least ten points on the board before being able to relax in later games. With this in mind, Bayern were already going to be up for it, and at the same time they would have been determined to put down a marker for a new kid on the block team such as City.

He did allow it. His formation and tactics meant that Bayern could play exactly how they wanted to and did against us. We were open, outnumbered in midfield (greatly!), and didn't press the ball even though we played a high line. None of anything he did before the 71st minute that night made any sense nor gave us any chance to not get battered. They had time and space on the ball from the first kick off until something clicked in his head and he brought Silva and Milner on after 71minutes and made it 5 in midfield for us. Even then we were still outnumbered because they were playing with no striker but at least it helped. But by then it was too late.

The best passer of the ball in the Prem is Yaya Toure yet look at his stats v Schweinsteiger in that game:
...........................................................................Yaya Toure.........................Bastian Schweinsteiger
[Source: Opta]
Passes......................................................................43................................................73
Passing accuracy..................................................81.4%.........................................94.5%
Passing accuracy (opposing half)...................70.8%.........................................98%
Long passes...........................................................8..................................................2
Short passes.........................................................35.................................................71
Minutes played....................................................90.................................................76
Aerial duels won...................................................0...................................................1

and SS only played 76minutes! Yaya made 118 passes against Norwich with 93% passing accuracy, although it was a completely different game against a far inferior team, there's no way the best passer of the ball in England has that much of a difference in performance just because the other team are really good and are well up for it. Schweinsteiger had more time and space and more options to pass to in midfield (since he had fewer long passes) the whole time he was on the pitch; whereas Yaya's passing accuracy is usually around 92% yet it was 22-24% lower than that in Bayern's half. When Yaya had the ball men in midfield to pass to, he was subsequently closed down easily and lost the ball.

It was a tactical disaster. The thing is, i'm seeing it - to a far lesser extent, granted - in Premier League games too. It was a problem against Hull, it was the problem against Southampton.

Agree with everything you wrote there, Kippax. I would add that you can't press the ball when you're outnumbered in midfield, as Bayern showed, and as Southampton showed on Saturday. It makes it relatively easy for them to keep possession and go at our back four. Our "two up" are isolated, appear lazy for sticking to the manager's instructions and play little part in the game. Our midfield get pulled out of position and isolated and we lose shape completely. This is the horror story that Bayern showed on the big screen for everyone to see. Southampton are nowhere near as good, but if you force Toure to play without the ball and try and do those things he doesn't do well you hit the jackpot. Bayern succeeded almost completely for 75 minutes, Southampton enough to prevent Ya Ya being a dominant force in the match. But, of course, Ya Ya is as lazy as Edin, and Sergio presumably. And did we see the beast have a bad day? Or is he lazy too? Thought you post hit every nail right on the head, Kippax.

 

[Marvin]

I could be totally wrong but I get the feeling that part of the reason we are so attacking and open is that Pellegrini is convinced that we have a fantastic team who should be thrashing everyone, home and away. Hence the all-out attacking home and away, regardless of opposition. He was even happy to take on Bayern and attack.
He seems genuinely bewildered when we lose away - he just can't fathom how our players can have lost to someone like Cardiff, shaking his head and using words like "amazing", "incredible" and "disbelief" in his post-match.

Is part of the problem that the only other time he had a really great squad of players (Real Madrid) he did win almost every week, home and away ? But unfortunately, the Premier League is not like La Liga ... everyone in the PL has decent players, big squads, vocal home support, and tries really hard. As Cardiff, Villa, Sunderland, etc have showed.

We have played the best football I have seen at home, and there's no reason why we can't do it away from home,

We fell behind Arsenal in September, then we lost Kompany then Silva. But we have held the gap to 6 points for 2 months, and now they are back I expect us to start to close it.

I know all teams have to handle injuries, but it depends on who is injured. Take Rooney out of Utd and look at the consequences

 

[El Mago]

We can't continue to be this bad away from home.