Mancini's poor CL pedigree - Cause for concern?

[Plaything of the gods]

CFC supporter here.

I find the inexperience argument baffling. If you look at City squad it's full of seasoned pros, all with years of playing at the top level. Silva, Aguero, Toure brothers, Barry, Nasri etc aren't youngsters, just because they haven't played in the CL for your club doesn't mean they lack experience at this level, they don't. Mancini has been around long enough, too and managed Inter in the CL for years.

Chelsea reached the CL semis first season after Abramovich's arrival and continued to do relatively well for years afterwards. Your owner's investment is more recent and the team is in its prime. Bowing out of CL at the group stage for the club with your depth and quality is simply not good enough, imo.

As for group of death, Villareal were shocking and Napoli is a very good team but not on your level and has no CL experience, either. Finishing second would have been acceptable since Bayern are a top club and were favorites due to their pedigree, but missing out on qualification altogether is a failure, given your resources and Mancini knows it,too.

Hey, if we're going to collect the full set of silverware, we have to enter all the competitions!

 

[Didsbury Dave]

CFC supporter here.

I find the inexperience argument baffling. If you look at City squad it's full of seasoned pros, all with years of playing at the top level. Silva, Aguero, Toure brothers, Barry, Nasri etc aren't youngsters, just because they haven't played in the CL for your club doesn't mean they lack experience at this level, they don't. Mancini has been around long enough, too and managed Inter in the CL for years.

Chelsea reached the CL semis first season after Abramovich's arrival and continued to do relatively well for years afterwards. Your owner's investment is more recent and the team is in its prime. Bowing out of CL at the group stage for the club with your depth and quality is simply not good enough, imo.

As for group of death, Villareal were shocking and Napoli is a very good team but not on your level and has no CL experience, either. Finishing second would have been acceptable since Bayern are a top club and were favorites due to their pedigree, but missing out on qualification altogether is a failure, given your resources and Mancini knows it,too.

You're right, CFC supporter. This is simply not good enough, we should get a new manager.

How has that worked out for you? Surely you have a CL medal to go along with an opinion that this 'isn't good enough', right? Surely if you can determine what isn't good enough, you know from experience what is.

I didn't say anything about getting a new manager. There's no need to get defensive, I'm not here to wind anyone up, just to give an opinion.

It's a valid one . Ignore the gobshites. I'm sure every forum has them, it's the nature of the beast.

I was really confident we'd beat you on Monday but the change in your system is bad news for us. If your manager has done his research on us he will sit deep, let us have the ball and try to counter us.

 

[BlueCityfan]

I totally agree with everything you've posted. But the priority for mcfc is to win the league this year. As long as that's achieved then Abu dhabi will be happy for Mancini to have another crack at the cl, and we fans are not devastated as you can tell. If we blow the league without the cl distraction, that will represent failure. I certainly don't buy the argument that the cl is not on city's radar, as some above have said. Mancini is going to have to get close in the
Next few years if he is still manager. Which is what cfc have done, but no
Cigar. Good to get an objective post. Thanks mate.

I don't agree as it doesn't matter whether you advance from the group stage all the way to the final. Unless you win it all, it's a failure. There's only one champion of the competition.

There are financial consequences related to the club not advancing past the CL group stage.

I realize that financial problems isn't high on your agenda due to the owner's wealth but at some point Mansour would probably want to see some regular CL income coming in, especially with UEFA introducing the FFP rules pretty soon.

Prestige is also important. Yes, you have to aim to win avery competition you're in but we're talking the elite of European football. There's no shame in being knocked out by one of the big clubs at some point, but the group stage should be a given if you want to be taken seriously.

Of course, but to be honest.....already featuring in the group stages is a HUGE boost in revenues compared to last seasons europa campaign.

City will be there next year and will have chances to do much better in the CL in the coming years. While Chelsea aren't even guaranteed top 4 this season. You really have to improve your performances to do so. But you seem to have done so lately...

 

[bobrivers]

You're right, CFC supporter. This is simply not good enough, we should get a new manager.

How has that worked out for you? Surely you have a CL medal to go along with an opinion that this 'isn't good enough', right? Surely if you can determine what isn't good enough, you know from experience what is.

I didn't say anything about getting a new manager. There's no need to get defensive, I'm not here to wind anyone up, just to give an opinion.

It's a valid one . Ignore the gobshites. I'm sure every forum has them, it's the nature of the beast.

I was really confident we'd beat you on Monday but the change in your system is bad news for us. If your manager has done his research on us he will sit deep, let us have the ball and try to counter us.

I still think City will win on Monday, your league form has been phenomenal so far and I don't see us being strong enough to stop you current side. CFC are in a rebuilding mode and are probably a couple of years away from getting back to our best, City on the other hand are in top shape and have the squad depth that no other PL club comes close to.

Good luck the rest of the season!

 

[remoh]

I didn't say anything about getting a new manager. There's no need to get defensive, I'm not here to wind anyone up, just to give an opinion.

It's a valid one . Ignore the gobshites. I'm sure every forum has them, it's the nature of the beast.

I was really confident we'd beat you on Monday but the change in your system is bad news for us. If your manager has done his research on us he will sit deep, let us have the ball and try to counter us.

I still think City will win on Monday, your league form has been phenomenal so far and I don't see us being strong enough to stop you current side. CFC are in a rebuilding mode and are probably a couple of years away from getting back to our best, City on the other hand are in top shape and have the squad depth that no other PL club comes close to.

Good luck the rest of the season!

Thanks for a sensible contribution to the thread, Bob. I hope your lot finish up second.

 

[bluemoondays]

Why are people so obsessed with winning the champions league ? We have a great manager who is winning things so why does it have to be all or nothing ? I couldn't give a fuck if he never wins it as long as we continue to compete at the highest level and play the way we are currently. He needs more appreciation IMO

^^ this, as long as we continue to pick up domestic trophies I don't give too much of a shit about the CL as long as we don't disgrace ourselves.

Obviously winning it would be great but too many people think because we have a great team we should be storming the CL. It doesn't work that way, there are around 10 teams that have a good chance of winning it - all are tough opponents and just a few mistakes can drop you out of it.

 

[Damocles]

You're right, CFC supporter. This is simply not good enough, we should get a new manager.

How has that worked out for you? Surely you have a CL medal to go along with an opinion that this 'isn't good enough', right? Surely if you can determine what isn't good enough, you know from experience what is.

I didn't say anything about getting a new manager. There's no need to get defensive, I'm not here to wind anyone up, just to give an opinion.

It's a valid one . Ignore the gobshites. I'm sure every forum has them, it's the nature of the beast.

I was really confident we'd beat you on Monday but the change in your system is bad news for us. If your manager has done his research on us he will sit deep, let us have the ball and try to counter us.

Sort of agree. Good points in the first post, but can't help but feel that we'll twat the fuckers.

 

[Any1aBlue]

It's probably too early to say, but it has crossed my mind before now that Mancini's possible lack of managerial ability in the Champions League could cost him his job somewhere down the line. What do we think?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/dec/07/champions-league-roberto-mancini-manchester-city" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... ester-city</a>

Trauma for one half of Manchester, mere disappointment for the other. But while Manchester City faced up to the half-expected reality that not even an emphatic win over the winners of Group A was enough to secure their Champions League survival, those with a longer perspective in mind wondered whether Roberto Mancini will turn out to be the man to lead them to glory in the tournament.

The fine goals from David Silva and Yaya Touré that put City 2-0 up against the current leaders of the Bundesliga inside the opening hour were entirely consistent with their more attacking football in a remarkably prolific opening to the season. But the danger was always that the effort would come too late, and a glum silence descended over the ground as the news of Napoli's goals came through, broken only by the full-throated chants of the Bavarian fans.

The 47-year-old Italian knows what it is like to reach the final of the continent's premier club competition. In 1992 he was alongside Gianluca Vialli in the Sampdoria team that lost 1-0 to Johan Cruyff's Barcelona at Wembley, and might well have won had his fellow striker – another future Premier League manager – made the most of a couple of excellent chances.

Since turning to coaching and management, however, Mancini's record in the competition has been one of steadily declining achievement. He brought Internazionale their first Serie A title in almost two decades, going on to make it a personal hat-trick in the next two seasons, but his success would not be reflected in the competition that Massimo Moratti, anxious to repeat his father's triumphs as president with Helenio Herrera as head coach, really wanted him to win.

In 2004-05, at his first attempt in the Champions League with Inter, the squad's considerable resources were enough to take him to the quarter-finals, where they were humiliated in both legs by their fellow tenants of San Siro, Carlo Ancelotti's Milan.

A year later they reached the same stage, only to go out to Villarreal on away goals. Then things got worse. In 2006-07 Inter were again eliminated on away goals in Catalunya, this time by Valencia in the round of 16. And in Mancini's final season they were once more unable to go beyond the first knockout stage, losing at home and away to Liverpool without managing to notch up a single goal. The lack of evidence that the side were making progress in European competition under Mancini – indeed, the evidence to the contrary – persuaded Moratti to dismiss the man who had brought him seven trophies.

No doubt, given Mancini's highly professional approach to the job, his two years out of the game and three out of Europe were filled with contemplation of the methods by which he might persuade a group of gifted and richly rewarded players to fulfil the hopes of an ambitious owner at the highest level. And no doubt City's new regime were hoping that he would take the team all the way to the final in Bayern's Allianz Arena at the first time of asking next May.

Were he merely to win City's first English league championship in 43 years, they would be unlikely to take the Moratti option. But the fact remains that in Mancini's fifth Champions League season as a manager of a club at the very top level of financial support, with a vastly expensive array of talent at his disposal, he has failed even to make it out of the group stage.

There have been occasions during this campaign – in the two games against Napoli, from which they salvaged only a single point, and the 2-0 defeat in Munich – when Mancini appeared to have learnt little from his experiences. Facing Bayern on their home turf, for example, he paid a heavy price for a series of frankly bizarre decisions, picking a pair of attacking full backs – Micah Richards and Gaël Clichy – and left Nigel De Jong, his most efficient midfield shield, on the bench, dropping Joleon Lescott while inviting Kolo Touré to make a first start since his return from suspension. This was the night Carlos Tevez apparently refused to take the field as a substitute, when many believed he should have started a game City wanted to win.

In the return match last night, against a Bayern side stripped of three of their best players by injury and illness and with half a dozen others allowed to sit it out on the bench, City were given the opportunity to improve their European record, and took advantage of Jupp Heynckes' selectorial decisions. Silva's incisive shot and Yaya Touré's strike at the end of a lovely move involving Sergio Agüero and Edin Dzeko warmed the home fans on a chilly night.

"It takes a team years of development to succeed at this level," Heynckes observed afterwards. "City have had a lot of new players coming into the club. I think Mancini is slowly getting it together. But it will take experience and time."

City's fans have known much, much worse than elimination from the Champions League, and success in turning their present lead in the domestic championship in victory in the spring would dispel even the tiniest cloud from the East Manchester sky. In Europe, however, their manager can consider himself still very much on trial.

you fucking idiot.........................what on earth possessed a city fan to post this bollox? Lay low,pal,lay very low......................

 

[Blue Dan]

It's probably too early to say, but it has crossed my mind before now that Mancini's possible lack of managerial ability in the Champions League could cost him his job somewhere down the line. What do we think?

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/dec/07/champions-league-roberto-mancini-manchester-city" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... ester-city</a>

Trauma for one half of Manchester, mere disappointment for the other. But while Manchester City faced up to the half-expected reality that not even an emphatic win over the winners of Group A was enough to secure their Champions League survival, those with a longer perspective in mind wondered whether Roberto Mancini will turn out to be the man to lead them to glory in the tournament.

The fine goals from David Silva and Yaya Touré that put City 2-0 up against the current leaders of the Bundesliga inside the opening hour were entirely consistent with their more attacking football in a remarkably prolific opening to the season. But the danger was always that the effort would come too late, and a glum silence descended over the ground as the news of Napoli's goals came through, broken only by the full-throated chants of the Bavarian fans.

The 47-year-old Italian knows what it is like to reach the final of the continent's premier club competition. In 1992 he was alongside Gianluca Vialli in the Sampdoria team that lost 1-0 to Johan Cruyff's Barcelona at Wembley, and might well have won had his fellow striker – another future Premier League manager – made the most of a couple of excellent chances.

Since turning to coaching and management, however, Mancini's record in the competition has been one of steadily declining achievement. He brought Internazionale their first Serie A title in almost two decades, going on to make it a personal hat-trick in the next two seasons, but his success would not be reflected in the competition that Massimo Moratti, anxious to repeat his father's triumphs as president with Helenio Herrera as head coach, really wanted him to win.

In 2004-05, at his first attempt in the Champions League with Inter, the squad's considerable resources were enough to take him to the quarter-finals, where they were humiliated in both legs by their fellow tenants of San Siro, Carlo Ancelotti's Milan.

A year later they reached the same stage, only to go out to Villarreal on away goals. Then things got worse. In 2006-07 Inter were again eliminated on away goals in Catalunya, this time by Valencia in the round of 16. And in Mancini's final season they were once more unable to go beyond the first knockout stage, losing at home and away to Liverpool without managing to notch up a single goal. The lack of evidence that the side were making progress in European competition under Mancini – indeed, the evidence to the contrary – persuaded Moratti to dismiss the man who had brought him seven trophies.

No doubt, given Mancini's highly professional approach to the job, his two years out of the game and three out of Europe were filled with contemplation of the methods by which he might persuade a group of gifted and richly rewarded players to fulfil the hopes of an ambitious owner at the highest level. And no doubt City's new regime were hoping that he would take the team all the way to the final in Bayern's Allianz Arena at the first time of asking next May.

Were he merely to win City's first English league championship in 43 years, they would be unlikely to take the Moratti option. But the fact remains that in Mancini's fifth Champions League season as a manager of a club at the very top level of financial support, with a vastly expensive array of talent at his disposal, he has failed even to make it out of the group stage.

There have been occasions during this campaign – in the two games against Napoli, from which they salvaged only a single point, and the 2-0 defeat in Munich – when Mancini appeared to have learnt little from his experiences. Facing Bayern on their home turf, for example, he paid a heavy price for a series of frankly bizarre decisions, picking a pair of attacking full backs – Micah Richards and Gaël Clichy – and left Nigel De Jong, his most efficient midfield shield, on the bench, dropping Joleon Lescott while inviting Kolo Touré to make a first start since his return from suspension. This was the night Carlos Tevez apparently refused to take the field as a substitute, when many believed he should have started a game City wanted to win.

In the return match last night, against a Bayern side stripped of three of their best players by injury and illness and with half a dozen others allowed to sit it out on the bench, City were given the opportunity to improve their European record, and took advantage of Jupp Heynckes' selectorial decisions. Silva's incisive shot and Yaya Touré's strike at the end of a lovely move involving Sergio Agüero and Edin Dzeko warmed the home fans on a chilly night.

"It takes a team years of development to succeed at this level," Heynckes observed afterwards. "City have had a lot of new players coming into the club. I think Mancini is slowly getting it together. But it will take experience and time."

City's fans have known much, much worse than elimination from the Champions League, and success in turning their present lead in the domestic championship in victory in the spring would dispel even the tiniest cloud from the East Manchester sky. In Europe, however, their manager can consider himself still very much on trial.

you fucking idiot.........................what on earth possessed a city fan to post this bollox? Lay low,pal,lay very low......................

Come to Sharston and we'll settle this man to man, penis to penis.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

Holy.Fuck.bobrivers gave an honest assesment of our Champions League campagn and he gets dogs abuse.Did we fail in the Champions League? YES! Am I happy with RM? HELL YEAH! Ignore the stupidness bob.