Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[BobKowalski]

Let's look at City from an outside perspective.

Nouveau-riche club who has recently failed FFP. They have transfer bans and need to replace a few members of their squad. However, they do not allow poor results in a transitional period and you can be sacked despite success like Mancini and potentially Pellegrini. Their owner is now investing in other, more prestigious clubs and their board members seem to be more interested in other, more prestigious citys than Manchester.

Their star midfielder is a man-child who demands constant attention. Their star defender hasn't performed to his standard for 3 years. Their star attacking midfielder can't score goals and their star striker is constantly injured. On top of this they have no real interest in youth development and problem positions all over the pitch. Their dressing room has a history of blaming the management for their under-performance and there's a feeling that the players run the club rather than the manager.

The ground is often half-empty when you really need them the most and the atmosphere is bereft at all times. Neither the players nor the fans have the mental strength to succeed in Europe and the club itself is a highly sanitised and corporate entity with little to no character.

Why are Pep and Klopp going to be interested again? Is it because of how patient we are for a rebuilding effort? Our excellent and passionate fanbase who go the extra mile? Our wonderful players who care deeply about the club?

It's madness to think that a club in our position is more attractive than Bayern and Dortmund. Even without Champions League Dortmund are more attractive and Klopp would do better staying there and building a new team over the next 5 years than coming here for 12 months and getting thrown out of the door.

We'd do well to attract Pepe Le Pew if we sacked Pellegrini 11 games after winning a title, let alone Pep Guardiola

Spot on. You look at the Yellow Wall at Dortmund, and the support for Klopp and their players this weekend when they were literally bottom of the league. Contrast that with our support.

It's pretty clear that both those managers are in the short term utter pipe dreams. Maybe 18 months from now if we can build on where we are both on the field and off, and shape the squad a little better, we will with the culmination of Pellegrini's 3 year contract be in a position to talk to them.

Or the alternative view. A club that has displayed the best domestic form over the last 4 seasons including two title wins, the first with arguably the most memorable match in PL history settled with a 'goal that was heard round the world'. A club that is developing a unique business model with sister clubs on various continents and has just opened a state of the art campus and training facility. A club that can offer a player like Yaya a worldwide stage to showcase his talents that would not necessarily be the case at another club like Barca. A club that in 5 short years has risen from the sea of mediocrity to be one of the most talked about in world football be that chatter negative or positive.

We are not Dortmund. We know this because we are not languishing in the relegation zone. We are not any other club we are just who we are. But what we should not be is fearful. Fear inhibits. We don't keep a coach simply because we are fearful other coaches may react negatively if we don't. We don't keep a coach because potential players may get sniffy if we don't. Offer a player enough money and 9 times out of 10 he won't give a monkey's if you have had 3 coaches in 12 months, no CL football and are largely shite. We know this because we are seeing this in action right now with ManU. We know this because we saw it in 2010 ourselves.

And underachievement is precisely what gets you the sack at an elite club. City requires its coaches to progress and/or compete. If we progress to a CL QF and compete but lose the club will retain your services as you have demonstrated progression. If we finish bottom of the group then we have neither progressed or competed and you are likely to be replaced. If we finish 3rd and get to a Europa League final then the case is more complex as I would argue that is progression. The board may see it differently but there is an argument to be made. But you cannot retain a coach simply because you are fearful of the reaction. You can keep a coach who hasn't progressed because you are convinced next season may be different. That's fine. But painting a picture of a poorly supported club that has to retain an under performing coach because it is worried how it will be perceived is the day we might as well just pack it in and go home.

 

[BillyShears]

If I could see something that allayed these fears of be much more relaxed but I don't see what he had in his locker to turn it around.

Poor argument. He's a manager who won the premier league last season. In his first season in the league. Who has taken far worse sides than ours much further in the CL than we've ever been. He may not be Pep, but nor is he simply some fancy foreign version of Pardew or Keegan, no matter how many times you try and characterise him in that manner.

His pedigree deserves much more respect than "i don't see what he had (sic) in his locker to turn it around".

 

[HelloCity]

"Their star defender hasn't performed to his standard for 3 years"

Come again?

 

[cleavers]

Let's look at City from an outside perspective.

Nouveau-riche club who has recently failed FFP. They have transfer bans and need to replace a few members of their squad. However, they do not allow poor results in a transitional period and you can be sacked despite success like Mancini and potentially Pellegrini. Their owner is now investing in other, more prestigious clubs and their board members seem to be more interested in other, more prestigious citys than Manchester.

Their star midfielder is a man-child who demands constant attention. Their star defender hasn't performed to his standard for 3 years. Their star attacking midfielder can't score goals and their star striker is constantly injured. On top of this they have no real interest in youth development and problem positions all over the pitch. Their dressing room has a history of blaming the management for their under-performance and there's a feeling that the players run the club rather than the manager.

The ground is often half-empty when you really need them the most and the atmosphere is bereft at all times. Neither the players nor the fans have the mental strength to succeed in Europe and the club itself is a highly sanitised and corporate entity with little to no character.

Why are Pep and Klopp going to be interested again? Is it because of how patient we are for a rebuilding effort? Our excellent and passionate fanbase who go the extra mile? Our wonderful players who care deeply about the club?

It's madness to think that a club in our position is more attractive than Bayern and Dortmund. Even without Champions League Dortmund are more attractive and Klopp would do better staying there and building a new team over the next 5 years than coming here for 12 months and getting thrown out of the door.

We'd do well to attract Pepe Le Pew if we sacked Pellegrini 11 games after winning a title, let alone Pep Guardiola

Good post Dam, you may have been deliberately harsh about the clubs situation from the outside, and certainly our owners intentions in the longer term, but its more the truth than those who only look inward, seeing City as already at the very top, and it pretty well nails why we won't be getting that calibre of manager any time soon, and why we haven't been able to secure really top talent players since Sergio. Unfortunately many see us as already one of the european elite clubs, because we've won a couple of titles, the reality is that we might have made it in England, but we're country mile away from being such within europe.

The manger might well be struggling at the present time, but it would be folly right now to do anything other than back him, because there isn't anyone out there who could GUARANTEE taking us that extra step, there'll be lots of hopefuls of course, but we need to make sure, otherwise it will set us back again, and I'm sure the upper management fully understand this.

 

[BillyShears]

Or the alternative view. A club that has displayed the best domestic form over the last 4 seasons including two title wins, the first with arguably the most memorable match in PL history settled with a 'goal that was heard round the world'. A club that is developing a unique business model with sister clubs on various continents and has just opened a state of the art campus and training facility. A club that can offer a player like Yaya a worldwide stage to showcase his talents that would not necessarily be the case at another club like Barca. A club that in 5 short years has risen from the sea of mediocrity to be one of the most talked about in world football be that chatter negative or positive.

We are not Dortmund. We know this because we are not languishing in the relegation zone. We are not any other club we are just who we are. But what we should not be is fearful. Fear inhibits. We don't keep a coach simply because we are fearful other coaches may react negatively if we don't. We don't keep a coach because potential players may get sniffy if we don't. Offer a player enough money and 9 times out of 10 he won't give a monkey's if you have had 3 coaches in 12 months, no CL football and are largely shite. We know this because we are seeing this in action right now with ManU. We know this because we saw it in 2010 ourselves.

And underachievement is precisely what gets you the sack at an elite club. City requires its coaches to progress and/or compete. If we progress to a CL QF and compete but lose the club will retain your services as you have demonstrated progression. If we finish bottom of the group then we have neither progressed or competed and you are likely to be replaced. If we finish 3rd and get to a Europa League final then the case is more complex as I would argue that is progression. The board may see it differently but there is an argument to be made. But you cannot retain a coach simply because you are fearful of the reaction. You can keep a coach who hasn't progressed because you are convinced next season may be different. That's fine. But painting a picture of a poorly supported club that has to retain an under performing coach because it is worried how it will be perceived is the day we might as well just pack it in and go home.

It's not about being fearful of anything Bob. It's about the reality of the situation. You won't get Pep or Klopp this summer, so what do you do. Think long term ie. lets give Pellegrini another year as he showed in his first season and during his time at Villreal and Malaga than he can do well in the CL and the PL. This way we have a chance of getting that world class manager we would like. Or short term. ie. we've regressed from the standard Pellegrini himself set so lets sack him and we can roll the dice with another 'maybe' appointment.

Sorry but I'm not even close to being convinced by the latter. It's just farce dressed up as practicality.

 

[Anonymous]

If I could see something that allayed these fears of be much more relaxed but I don't see what he had in his locker to turn it around.

Poor argument. He's a manager who won the premier league last season. In his first season in the league. Who has taken far worse sides than ours much further in the CL than we've ever been. He may not be Pep, but nor is he simply some fancy foreign version of Pardew or Keegan, no matter how many times you try and characterise him in that manner.

His pedigree deserves much more respect than "i don't see what he had (sic) in his locker to turn it around".

Bloody phone!

His pedigree also includes being the manager during one of Real Madrid's most embarrassing ever defeats.

 

[BillyShears]

If I could see something that allayed these fears of be much more relaxed but I don't see what he had in his locker to turn it around.

Poor argument. He's a manager who won the premier league last season. In his first season in the league. Who has taken far worse sides than ours much further in the CL than we've ever been. He may not be Pep, but nor is he simply some fancy foreign version of Pardew or Keegan, no matter how many times you try and characterise him in that manner.

His pedigree deserves much more respect than "i don't see what he had (sic) in his locker to turn it around".

Bloody phone!

His pedigree also includes being the manager during one of Real Madrid's most embarrassing ever defeats.

That's a poor attempt at a straw man mate. I believe you're letting your hatred for Pellegrini cloud your judgment a little.

 

[Damocles]

Good post Dam, you may have been deliberately harsh about the clubs situation from the outside, and certainly our owners intentions in the longer term, but its more the truth than those who only look inward, seeing City as already at the very top, and it pretty well nails why we won't be getting that calibre of manager any time soon, and why we haven't been able to secure really top talent players since Sergio. Unfortunately many see us as already one of the european elite clubs, because we've won a couple of titles, the reality is that we might have made it in England, but we're country mile away from being such within europe.

The manger might well be struggling at the present time, but it would be folly right now to do anything other than back him, because there isn't anyone out there who could GUARANTEE taking us that extra step, there'll be lots of hopefuls of course, but we need to make sure, otherwise it will set us back again, and I'm sure the upper management fully understand this.

I was being deliberately harsh to labour the point a little, but for me this whole issue comes back to something that I said earlier; it will decide what type of board we really have.

Ferran Soriano and Khaldoon Al-Mubarak have repeatedly told us that there is "a plan". This is something that I admit I have clung to during some of the harder moments since the takeover; it's ok to have short term problems because in place we have a long term and managed plan to increase not only the revenue of the club but the fan engagement and the worldwide reputation.

When Hughes was sacked, we heard that it was part of the plan. It was a needed step forward to make us challengers for the title and Europe. When Mancini was sacked, we all heard over and over that this was part of the plan. It was a needed step forwards into a more holistic based model that would increase the synergy of the Academy and the first team whilst creating a feel good atmosphere around the place.

Sacking Pellegrini is not part of the plan. It is not a step forwards towards a specific goal for the club at large.

It is a move of short termism, at the board flapping at recent results and not living by their own mantra of a long-term view. These are people who are guiding the City ship and we want them to know where they are going without having to make constant course corrections that will eventually end up the same way it always has - with us chasing our own tail.

I'd have extreme reservations about the board and this owner if it becomes clear that all of their talk of long term plan is actually something that can be changed when we play badly for 5 games. I can't imagine the managers of Europe would be any different

 

[Damocles]

Bloody phone!

His pedigree also includes being the manager during one of Real Madrid's most embarrassing ever defeats.

Alex Ferguson was manager during United's most embarrassing ever defeat. Yet he also won 50 high level trophies over his year.

I accept that people have different views on subjects but you need to sit and think that if your criticism of a manager is now reduced to "he got beat once" then your opinion has become worthless.

 

[BillyShears]

Sacking Pellegrini is not part of the plan. It is not a step forwards towards a specific goal for the club at large.

It is a move of short termism, at the board flapping at recent results and not living by their own mantra of a long-term view. These are people who are guiding the City ship and we want them to know where they are going without having to make constant course corrections that will eventually end up the same way it always has - with us chasing our own tail.

I'd have extreme reservations about the board and this owner if it becomes clear that all of their talk of long term plan is actually something that can be changed when we play badly for 5 games. I can't imagine the managers of Europe would be any different

I think it'd undermine Soriano, Begiristain, Khaldoon, and Marwood to a point where yeah I'd expect Mansour to be looking to replace the lot of them. Because as a board of directors these guys are the ones who have sold us the vision. They need to stand firm next to it now and not shit their pants at the first sign of trouble.