Manuel Pellegrini (cont)

[tolmie's hairdoo]

When only Peter Gabriel will do.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9vWBWEGEnM[/video]

 

[cleavers]

I'd have extreme reservations about the board and this owner if it becomes clear that all of their talk of long term plan is actually something that can be changed when we play badly for 5 games. I can't imagine the managers of Europe would be any different

I'd mainly agree, but with a caveat that if the run becomes 10, 15, even 20 games, then things would have to change, because we would be backing ourselves into a corner.

Long term plan or not, the damage would become too great, because we have, as a minimum financially, to qualify for the CL, and by qualify I don't mean do an Arsenal (you just know we'd get shafted in a qualifying game), so I think 3rd will be an absolute minimum, and any threat to that, and some kind of change would have to be made.

 

[aguero93:20]

If I could see something that allayed these fears of be much more relaxed but I don't see what he had in his locker to turn it around.

Poor argument. He's a manager who won the premier league last season. In his first season in the league. Who has taken far worse sides than ours much further in the CL than we've ever been. He may not be Pep, but nor is he simply some fancy foreign version of Pardew or Keegan, no matter how many times you try and characterise him in that manner.

His pedigree deserves much more respect than "i don't see what he had (sic) in his locker to turn it around".

Bloody phone!

His pedigree also includes being the manager during one of Real Madrid's most embarrassing ever defeats.

As was Mourinho. Twice.

 

[BillyShears]

I'd have extreme reservations about the board and this owner if it becomes clear that all of their talk of long term plan is actually something that can be changed when we play badly for 5 games. I can't imagine the managers of Europe would be any different

I'd mainly agree, but with a caveat that if the run becomes 10, 15, even 20 games, then things would have to change, because we would be backing ourselves into a corner.

Long term plan or not, the damage would become too great, because we have, as a minimum financially, to qualify for the CL, and by qualify I don't mean do an Arsenal (you just know we'd get shafted in a qualifying game), so I think 3rd will be an absolute minimum, and any threat to that, and some kind of change would have to be made.

Agree, I was just typing a post to say something similar. For any manager there's a cut off point where the results suggest the dressing room has gone - that's makes any manager's position untenable and it would be no different for Pellegrini. I also agree about the cut off point. I think being cut adrift of 3rd place would make Pellegrini's position very precarious. But with the quality in our dressing room being cut adrift of 3rd would suggest he's lost the dressing room.

 

[Lavinda Past]

When only Pete and Dud will do...

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMFHs5-22kM&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

[Anonymous]

Poor argument. He's a manager who won the premier league last season. In his first season in the league. Who has taken far worse sides than ours much further in the CL than we've ever been. He may not be Pep, but nor is he simply some fancy foreign version of Pardew or Keegan, no matter how many times you try and characterise him in that manner.

His pedigree deserves much more respect than "i don't see what he had (sic) in his locker to turn it around".

Bloody phone!

His pedigree also includes being the manager during one of Real Madrid's most embarrassing ever defeats.

That's a poor attempt at a straw man mate. I believe you're letting your hatred for Pellegrini cloud your judgment a little.

Hate him? That is a straw man of your own. I don't hate him, I just don't believe he is the right person for the job right now and results are reinforcing that belief.

I just don't see what he has right now to arrest the slump.

The next 3 games (as per the thread started on the subject) are going to be a good indicator of what we can expect. I said in that thread Bayern's a free hit as few expect to progress much further in that comp now.

However, I'm not at all comfortable with how dismissive some posters have been about Swansea.

Proper tough cluster of games and a chance for MP to show why I'm wrong.

 

[BobKowalski]

Or the alternative view. A club that has displayed the best domestic form over the last 4 seasons including two title wins, the first with arguably the most memorable match in PL history settled with a 'goal that was heard round the world'. A club that is developing a unique business model with sister clubs on various continents and has just opened a state of the art campus and training facility. A club that can offer a player like Yaya a worldwide stage to showcase his talents that would not necessarily be the case at another club like Barca. A club that in 5 short years has risen from the sea of mediocrity to be one of the most talked about in world football be that chatter negative or positive.

We are not Dortmund. We know this because we are not languishing in the relegation zone. We are not any other club we are just who we are. But what we should not be is fearful. Fear inhibits. We don't keep a coach simply because we are fearful other coaches may react negatively if we don't. We don't keep a coach because potential players may get sniffy if we don't. Offer a player enough money and 9 times out of 10 he won't give a monkey's if you have had 3 coaches in 12 months, no CL football and are largely shite. We know this because we are seeing this in action right now with ManU. We know this because we saw it in 2010 ourselves.

And underachievement is precisely what gets you the sack at an elite club. City requires its coaches to progress and/or compete. If we progress to a CL QF and compete but lose the club will retain your services as you have demonstrated progression. If we finish bottom of the group then we have neither progressed or competed and you are likely to be replaced. If we finish 3rd and get to a Europa League final then the case is more complex as I would argue that is progression. The board may see it differently but there is an argument to be made. But you cannot retain a coach simply because you are fearful of the reaction. You can keep a coach who hasn't progressed because you are convinced next season may be different. That's fine. But painting a picture of a poorly supported club that has to retain an under performing coach because it is worried how it will be perceived is the day we might as well just pack it in and go home.

It's not about being fearful of anything Bob. It's about the reality of the situation. You won't get Pep or Klopp this summer, so what do you do. Think long term ie. lets give Pellegrini another year as he showed in his first season and during his time at Villreal and Malaga than he can do well in the CL and the PL. This way we have a chance of getting that world class manager we would like. Or short term. ie. we've regressed from the standard Pellegrini himself set so lets sack him and we can roll the dice with another 'maybe' appointment.

Sorry but I'm not even close to being convinced by the latter. It's just farce dressed up as practicality.

I have no idea if we can get Pep or Simeone or Klopp or whoever this summer or if they are indeed our preferred candidates or whether we have any intention of replacing Pellers this summer irrespective of what happens. None of us do. What we do know is that progression in Europe is necessary otherwise speculation will mount. Making a competitive defence of the PL title is necessary otherwise speculation will mount. That is just a fact of life and we live with that fact accordingly.

What I did object to was this negative portrayal of our club. A portrayal where we should be grateful that we have Pellers in charge and somehow sacking him will send out the wrong message even if he does under perform or doesn't hit his targets (which btw hasn't happened yet); a club too fearful to make a decision and whose support is somehow inferior to Dortmund. It annoyed me hence I responded.

 

[chris85mcfc]

I'd have extreme reservations about the board and this owner if it becomes clear that all of their talk of long term plan is actually something that can be changed when we play badly for 5 games. I can't imagine the managers of Europe would be any different

I'd mainly agree, but with a caveat that if the run becomes 10, 15, even 20 games, then things would have to change, because we would be backing ourselves into a corner.

Long term plan or not, the damage would become too great, because we have, as a minimum financially, to qualify for the CL, and by qualify I don't mean do an Arsenal (you just know we'd get shafted in a qualifying game), so I think 3rd will be an absolute minimum, and any threat to that, and some kind of change would have to be made.

Agree, I was just typing a post to say something similar. For any manager there's a cut off point where the results suggest the dressing room has gone - that's makes any manager's position untenable and it would be no different for Pellegrini. I also agree about the cut off point. I think being cut adrift of 3rd place would make Pellegrini's position very precarious. But with the quality in our dressing room being cut adrift of 3rd would suggest he's lost the dressing room.

If we aren't capable of beating Swansea and giving a good account of ourselves against Bayern and Southampton, then id suggest he has lost the dressing room, either that or the players have become very disillusioned with his lack of tactical nous

 

[Anonymous]

I'd mainly agree, but with a caveat that if the run becomes 10, 15, even 20 games, then things would have to change, because we would be backing ourselves into a corner.

Long term plan or not, the damage would become too great, because we have, as a minimum financially, to qualify for the CL, and by qualify I don't mean do an Arsenal (you just know we'd get shafted in a qualifying game), so I think 3rd will be an absolute minimum, and any threat to that, and some kind of change would have to be made.

Agree, I was just typing a post to say something similar. For any manager there's a cut off point where the results suggest the dressing room has gone - that's makes any manager's position untenable and it would be no different for Pellegrini. I also agree about the cut off point. I think being cut adrift of 3rd place would make Pellegrini's position very precarious. But with the quality in our dressing room being cut adrift of 3rd would suggest he's lost the dressing room.

If we aren't capable of beating Swansea and giving a good account of ourselves against Bayern and Southampton, then id suggest he has lost the dressing room, either that or the players have become very disillusioned with his lack of tactical nous

He's not list the dressing room though. My info was shown to be wrong.

 

[flb]

Or the alternative view. A club that has displayed the best domestic form over the last 4 seasons including two title wins, the first with arguably the most memorable match in PL history settled with a 'goal that was heard round the world'. A club that is developing a unique business model with sister clubs on various continents and has just opened a state of the art campus and training facility. A club that can offer a player like Yaya a worldwide stage to showcase his talents that would not necessarily be the case at another club like Barca. A club that in 5 short years has risen from the sea of mediocrity to be one of the most talked about in world football be that chatter negative or positive.

We are not Dortmund. We know this because we are not languishing in the relegation zone. We are not any other club we are just who we are. But what we should not be is fearful. Fear inhibits. We don't keep a coach simply because we are fearful other coaches may react negatively if we don't. We don't keep a coach because potential players may get sniffy if we don't. Offer a player enough money and 9 times out of 10 he won't give a monkey's if you have had 3 coaches in 12 months, no CL football and are largely shite. We know this because we are seeing this in action right now with ManU. We know this because we saw it in 2010 ourselves.

And underachievement is precisely what gets you the sack at an elite club. City requires its coaches to progress and/or compete. If we progress to a CL QF and compete but lose the club will retain your services as you have demonstrated progression. If we finish bottom of the group then we have neither progressed or competed and you are likely to be replaced. If we finish 3rd and get to a Europa League final then the case is more complex as I would argue that is progression. The board may see it differently but there is an argument to be made. But you cannot retain a coach simply because you are fearful of the reaction. You can keep a coach who hasn't progressed because you are convinced next season may be different. That's fine. But painting a picture of a poorly supported club that has to retain an under performing coach because it is worried how it will be perceived is the day we might as well just pack it in and go home.

It's not about being fearful of anything Bob. It's about the reality of the situation. You won't get Pep or Klopp this summer, so what do you do. Think long term ie. lets give Pellegrini another year as he showed in his first season and during his time at Villreal and Malaga than he can do well in the CL and the PL. This way we have a chance of getting that world class manager we would like. Or short term. ie. we've regressed from the standard Pellegrini himself set so lets sack him and we can roll the dice with another 'maybe' appointment.

Sorry but I'm not even close to being convinced by the latter. It's just farce dressed up as practicality.

I have no idea if we can get Pep or Simeone or Klopp or whoever this summer or if they are indeed our preferred candidates or whether we have any intention of replacing Pellers this summer irrespective of what happens. None of us do. What we do know is that progression in Europe is necessary otherwise speculation will mount. Making a competitive defence of the PL title is necessary otherwise speculation will mount. That is just a fact of life and we live with that fact accordingly.

What I did object to was this negative portrayal of our club. A portrayal where we should be grateful that we have Pellers in charge and somehow sacking him will send out the wrong message even if he does under perform or doesn't hit his targets (which btw hasn't happened yet); a club too fearful to make a decision and whose support is somehow inferior to Dortmund. It annoyed me hence I responded.

I agree about the choreographed support at Dortmund, just a few Nazi youth fanatics with loudhaler's getting some strong lager fuelled pissheads clapping and shouting in agreement.

They aren't a patch on the Aris fans that came to ours a few seasons back, and who the fuck are Aris by the way?