Middle East Conflict

[Metal Biker]

Wrong. Yesterday I thought the balance of probability and evidence indiacated it was isreal. Then you and others pointed out IJ had rockets that could do yhat kind of damage. Now I'm undecided . There is an awful lot that still doesnt stack up especially on the IDF side. I don't see how anyone can be certain it wasng the IDF.

I'm certain it wasn't the IDF mostly BECAUSE of the facts that have been revealed since the annoucement of the explosion. A lot of the blame has now shifted in the PIJ proving their innocence, and nobody can.

 

[Scottyboi]

JDAMs have an airburst function on the MK 83 and 84 models, there wouldn't necessarily be a crator, no one knows for sure if it was a misfire or the IDF, both will claim the other did it, but fforxsure no one on bluemoon can say either way who it was as nothing on social media not even geoconfirmed (whos thread on it was sketchy to fuck and guesswork) know for sure, I mean one video posted on twitter claiming it was footage was from 2002

The footage was directly off AlJazeeras live stream. And yep no one knows for certain, can only go off what is available. What was sketchy about geoconfirmed?

 

[Metal Biker]

Assuming it was a big rocket that hit. Which it wasn't. Sure. But now that we've seen the damage, we know it could have been done by the kinds of rockets their nutty friends try to fire

PIJ have a number of 90kg warheads than can be fired from Iranian MLRS. Looks very much like a 90kg rocket to me.

 

[trueblue1972]

Difference between Hamas and Not-in-yahoo is that the former is a Dictator and the latter can and most likely will get voted out once this present response is completed

He has to go after this surely ? One is that people will realise that the oppression has definitely caused risen tensions and globall support and secondly for the security failure, his promise to peolle who moves I to settlements was their safety

 

[west didsblue]

saying you support a 2 state solution is easy until you actually realise that means bulldozing the 244+ Israeli settlements built on Palestinian land.

Because you can’t expect Palestinians to accept a 2 state solution where Israel takes even more of their land than they had 35 years ago.

That’s why Likud and Netenyahu built them, they know it makes a 2 state soliton impossible.

And everyone knows that, so actually saying you support a 2 state solution is meaningless at best, and at worst means you support the status quo.

A number of deals were on the table during Barak’s and Olmert’s prime ministerships that included Israel keeping the main longstanding settlement blocs and handing over equivalent areas of Israel to the Palestinians. For various reasons these proposals were rejected due to the extremists on both sides scuppering them. I’d like to think that after this latest round of violence the Israelis will get rid of Netanyahu’s right wing settler appeasing government and go in a totally different direction. Similarly if Hamas get eradicated maybe a more moderate Palestinian leadership can represent all Palestinians. Unfortunately as long as Iran is on the sidelines stirring up trouble via its proxies any sort of deal is a long shot.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

No, not at all. It's one person who made a dumb tweet and then deleted it.

Such an incredible coincidence. He made it just after the hospital bombing. And it was his job to disseminate IDF attacks on Social media. Not random.

I am sorry but I am struggling to think you really beleive that it was an incredible concidence.

 

[Metal Biker]

The footage was directly off AlJazeeras live stream. And yep no one knows for certain, can only go off what is available. What was sketchy about geoconfirmed?

GeoConfirmed have been well respected in their coverage of the Ukraine/Russian Invasion, yet on this they're suddenly "sketchy".

 

[Scottyboi]

No I think the people behind the idf twitter accounts would gladly take responsibility for a bombing they didn’t do because they’re unprofessional and bloodthirsty.

Ultimately there’s enough proper militaries in the region a- US, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran - that an Israeli missile would be tracked all the way from launch to impact and someone would have spilled the beans.

Plus Biden’s trip was already risky before, there’s no way he goes if the USA weren’t sure it wasn’t Israel.

Yep that Israeli on twitter didn't even know himself who did it. But he was prepared to defend why Israel would bomb a hospital and then had to backtrack.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Anyway a good debate chaps, just sad that it's been about such a terrible incident.

 

[Username Required]

The United States has blocked a United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolution that would have established humanitarian pauses in the ongoing Israeli war on the blockaded Palestinian Gaza Strip.

The US on Wednesday vetoed the resolution that had been drafted by Brazil and had sought to broker aid access to Gaza amid the incessant Israeli airstrikes and shelling against people in the tiny strip of land.

Representatives of 12 countries in the 15-member UNSC voted in favor of the resolution while Britain and Russia abstained. A UNSC resolution needs the approval of all five veto-wielding members of the body, including the US, to pass. Besides, for the resolution to pass, no permanent member should cast a veto.

US Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield justified her country’s veto, saying “this resolution did not mention Israel’s right of self-defense.”

sauce is Iranian.

US vetoes UNSC resolution demanding humanitarian pause in Gaza

The US vetoes a UNSC resolution demanding humanitarian pauses in the Israeli regime’s war on Gaza.

www.presstv.ir

 

[urban genie]

The footage was directly off AlJazeeras live stream. And yep no one knows for certain, can only go off what is available. What was sketchy about geoconfirmed?

I posted this morning I read the full post and the links and it was ll inconclusive, yet they made a concrete decision on what happened, I find such things as avsilutes on guesswork sketchy, they could just say they have no clue, as it is clear no fucker bar the person who fired the rocket/bomb does.

As an aside as my integrity was called into question with the sketchy remark, I have never heard of geoconfirmed until this thread shared their post and have no idea of their coverage or ukrine/russia so caling thm sketchy was an opinion on what has been posted here on this subject, wouldn't know about the posts of theirs on U/R to say if I found them accurate or not and it's irrelevent anyway.

 

[Metal Biker]

Such an incredible coincidence. He made it just after the hospital bombing. And it was his job to disseminate IDF attacks on Social media. Not random.

I am sorry but I am struggling to think you really beleive that it was an incredible concidence.

Nope. Not a coincidence. PIJ fired a barrage of rockets towards Israel from Southern Gaza, one malfunctioned, the warhead dropped and unintentionally landed in the car park of a hospital.

It's not exactly brain surgery.

 

[meltonblue]

The footage was directly off AlJazeeras live stream. And yep no one knows for certain, can only go off what is available. What was sketchy about geoconfirmed?

Less sketchy, but this is someone countering it. Worth saying they’re arguing plausibility rather than anything concrete, no one will know for sure I don’t think unless independent experts are allowed in to investigate.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Nope. Not a coinicence. PIJ fired a barrage of rockets towards Israel from Southern Gaza, one malfunctioned, the warhead dropped and unintentionally landed in the car park of a hospital.

It's not exactly brain surgery.

The tweet??

 

[Scottyboi]

I posted this morningn I rwad the full post and the links and it was ll inconclusive, yet they made a concrete decision on what happened, I find such things as avsilutes on guesswork sketchy, they could just say they have no clue, as it is clear no fucker bar the person who fired the rocket/bomb does

Well they geolocated verified footage from Aljazeera showing the missiles launching and one failing and landing on the geolocated hospital and then an explosion is seen. Which was then cross referenced from other cameras that they also geolocated.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Yes, Hamas is all wrong. Nothing about them is right. But most on the left will not be caught dead saying it. Which confirms this is not merely about right and wrong. It's partly about it. But not wholly.

I mean, how can anyone not see Hamas is just plain wrong for Palestinians? They shoot rockets from Cemeteries near a hospitals in Palestinian land. :(

This is a group with a 15% -25% failure rate on their rocket launches and still they take so little precaution.

If it was about right and wrong, it's clear as day this group is ALL Wrong.

And if this is the case , which in fairness, is looking increasingly likely then it is a war crime. Non state organisations can be charged with war crimes as well as state backed organisations. No matter what way we/you view Hamas or Islam Jihad or whoever is ultimately found to be responsible, it is a war crime.

Professor Ray Murphy was on the Irish RTE news this evening and came across very well. What I liked in his analysis is that he acknowledged the likelihood of whether evidence so far being presented, as backing the theory of a misfired rocket launched from Gaza. He says it could be years before true verification can be done. At the moment the forensic investigation required on the ground is not possible.

But whoever is ultimately proven to be responsible has committed a war crime in his estimation.

I can’t find the news video yet but he was on a morning radio show earlier today.

UN to investigate possible war crimes

Professor Ray Murphy of the Irish Centre for Human Rights at NUI Galway, discusses a new UN inquiry to probe possible war crimes in Gaza

www.rte.ie

 

[The blue phantom]

Such an incredible coincidence. He made it just after the hospital bombing. And it was his job to disseminate IDF attacks on Social media. Not random.

I am sorry but I am struggling to think you really beleive that it was an incredible concidence.

You have to counter in that the IDF have stood up multiple times in front of the cameras and denied atrocities, Weeks/Months later walked it all back and owned up when they were found to be lying. That's why you can't believe a word they say, or Hamas too

 

[trueblue1972]

A number of deals were on the table during Barak’s and Olmert’s prime ministerships that included Israel keeping the main longstanding settlement blocs and handing over equivalent areas of Israel to the Palestinians. For various reasons these proposals were rejected due to the extremists on both sides scuppering them. I’d like to think that after this latest round of violence the Israelis will get rid of Netanyahu’s right wing settler appeasing government and go in a totally different direction. Similarly if Hamas get eradicated maybe a more moderate Palestinian leadership can represent all Palestinians. Unfortunately as long as Iran is on the sidelines stirring up trouble via its proxies any sort of deal is a long shot.

I'd love to think this also , but how do you calm down the hate that's been stired further between the civilians on both sides?

 

[Metal Biker]

The tweet??

Was bullshit from an overly defendent Israeli who didn't know the facts of the matter and deleted when he was told the truth that no such attack had taken place by Israel.

Again, you base your assumption it was Israel. On. A. TWEET!

 

[bugsyblue]

So you don't believe the footage of the rocket malfunctioning in flight and hitting the hospital?
You disbelieve GeoConfirmed's conclusion (who have done stellar work pinpointing incidents durng the Ukraine/Russian Invasion) that the rocket that hit the hospital was fired from within Gaza itself? Israel's own denial, the United States claim that backs up it was done by Islamic Jihad, or the images that it was the car park and not the hospital itself that was hit, like the PA initially claimed?

Yet "all the evidence points to it being Israel"? Again, I ask you, what is this "evidence" you speak of?

You’ve literally just made up a quote, put it in speech marks and implied I said it. Wtf. You are an odd creature.

I haven’t said anywhere “all the evidence points to Israel” in fact what I literally said, in the post you are replying to, is that I don’t have any evidence and I haven’t seen any evidence in any major news outlets that can conclude whether it was Israel or whether it was Palestine or whether it was someone else.

I mean you have literally just lied that I said something I fundamentally didn’t. Why?