Middle East Conflict

Bluemoon_420 said:
Yeah of course there’s plenty of Palestinians that hold similar views and no surprise considering they’re the ones being oppressed for the last 75 years. When you dehumanise a people it’s only going to go one way.

The poll I posted yesterday from the Israel democracy institute doesn’t exactly paint the picture of just a few Israelis that hold these type of views. Are many of them letting their emotions cloud their judgement, I’d like to think so, but based on my own experiences, I’d say the moderates were in the minority even before Oct 7th and even less so now.

For context, the poll I’m referring to:

To what extent do you think that Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza when planning the next phases of fighting there?

Not at all: Jews 47.5 Arabs 1.2
Not so much: Jews 35.9 Arabs 4.5
Quite a lot: Jews 7.7 Arabs 21.2
Very much: Jews 5.2 Arabs 62.1
Don't know: Jews 3.7 Arabs 11.0

Do you agree or disagree that when undertaking military operations, the IDF should ensure that it is not breaking international laws and rules of war?

Strongly agree: Jews 14.3 Arabs: 71.2
Somewhat agree: Jews 33.6 Arabs 11.4
Somewhat disagree: Jews 26.6 Arabs 3.8
Strongly disagree: Jews 19.2 Arabs 1.1
Don't know: Jews 6.5 Arabs 12.5

Only 12.9% of Jews in Israel in high support of "considering the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population." 47.5% believes they should not be considered at all.

A larger percentage of Jews in Israel strongly support breaking international laws and rules of war (19.2%) than upholding them (14.3%).
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Had a look on the Israel Democracy Institute website and can’t find this poll. Have you got a link?
 
I tot
Ducado said:
He is a member of Otzma Yehudit a far right party that is propping up the current government, people need to stop quoting extremist of both sides, they have extreme opinions they are not the barometer of normal opinions, would people quote members of Britain's First and present it as the opinion of the average British citizen ?

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I totally get that and balance is needed, but unfortunately it is a right wing government that is in power and you would hope that this view is not one they share, but I for one am not overly optimistic that they don’t.
 
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Bluemoon_420 said:
Yeah of course there’s plenty of Palestinians that hold similar views and no surprise considering they’re the ones being oppressed for the last 75 years. When you dehumanise a people it’s only going to go one way.

The poll I posted yesterday from the Israel democracy institute doesn’t exactly paint the picture of just a few Israelis that hold these type of views. Are many of them letting their emotions cloud their judgement, I’d like to think so, but based on my own experiences, I’d say the moderates were in the minority even before Oct 7th and even less so now.

For context, the poll I’m referring to:

To what extent do you think that Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population in Gaza when planning the next phases of fighting there?

Not at all: Jews 47.5 Arabs 1.2
Not so much: Jews 35.9 Arabs 4.5
Quite a lot: Jews 7.7 Arabs 21.2
Very much: Jews 5.2 Arabs 62.1
Don't know: Jews 3.7 Arabs 11.0

Do you agree or disagree that when undertaking military operations, the IDF should ensure that it is not breaking international laws and rules of war?

Strongly agree: Jews 14.3 Arabs: 71.2
Somewhat agree: Jews 33.6 Arabs 11.4
Somewhat disagree: Jews 26.6 Arabs 3.8
Strongly disagree: Jews 19.2 Arabs 1.1
Don't know: Jews 6.5 Arabs 12.5

Only 12.9% of Jews in Israel in high support of "considering the suffering of the civilian Palestinian population." 47.5% believes they should not be considered at all.

A larger percentage of Jews in Israel strongly support breaking international laws and rules of war (19.2%) than upholding them (14.3%).
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I can't find that poll can you post a direct link and hopefully the methodology used

I have stated earlier in this thread that there is deep underlying insecurity among Israelis which considering Jewish history is understandable, contrary to what some believe the vast majority have nowhere else to go they were born there and all their family live there, that groups like Hamas and countries like Iran issue blood curdling threats just adds to the siege mentality

None of this however justifies the appalling destruction being done to gaza and the loss of innocent civilian life, but understanding the context is important
 
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BrianW said:
There is long-standing antisemitism in the UK. Where I live there are two golf clubs. The second exists because Jews were not allowed to join the first. Many people here, particularly the Upper Class, thought Hitler was great right up to 1939. We did virtually nothing to admit Jewish refugees from the Nazis pre-1939, not least because the Daily Mail objected to them coming here.

So I perfectly understand why so many Jews want a Jewish homeland (Israel) where they are in control and where, if all things turn to shit, they can emigrate to. It's natural, and it explains why most of the community is fiercely supportive of Israel.

How you resolve this issue between Israel and Palestine I haven't a clue. The fact is there is a minority on both sides who would happily commit genocide on the other. I don't see any obvious path to peace and, as ever, it is the innocents who suffer most.
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I find your first two sentences absolutely shocking if true.
Is that truly happening in modern Britain?
 
halfcenturyup said:
Let's leave a solution to IS for another debate. This is about Israel and Palestine, but I will say this. What do we see in common with Iraq, Syria and Palestine? I'll throw in Afghanistan for good measure.
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They have a lot of things in common than just interference with the West. And that region has been in conflict long before there was even a West. Let's not be so arrogant to think we are that important.
Bluemoon_420 said:
The Zionist mentality in a nutshell, does this sound like the words of the “good guys”?

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They have hate for those who they view as their attackers. This is not surprising. You'd find similar sentiments all over Gaza, Jerusalem and the greater Arab and Muslim world.
 
Ducado said:
He is a member of Otzma Yehudit a far right party that is propping up the current government, people need to stop quoting extremist of both sides, they have extreme opinions they are not the barometer of normal opinions, would people quote members of Britain's First and present it as the opinion of the average British citizen ?

​

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True but he’s a member of their parliament, he’s not supposed to be a fucking terrorist but he’s certainly speaking and acting like one the genocidal ****.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I f

I find your first two sentences absolutely shocking if true.
Is that truly happening in modern Britain?
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It was fairly standard for many golf clubs not to admit Jews in the early to mid part of the 20th century which is why there’s still quite a few golf clubs today that were set up by Jews who couldn’t get into the established ones. It’s not happening in modern Britain.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
I f

I find your first two sentences absolutely shocking if true.
Is that truly happening in modern Britain?
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Not in modern Britain, but back in the day.

There is still antisemitism though. Lots of it. Jewish graves being desecrated, for one example. Not long ago one of the local synagogues had to have very high fencing installed. There is a reason why the Jewish community has a Community Security Trust (CST). https://cst.org.uk/about-cst
 
west didsblue said:
It was fairly standard for many golf clubs not to admit Jews in the early to mid part of the 20th century which is why there’s still quite a few golf clubs today that were set up by Jews who couldn’t get into the established ones. It’s not happening in modern Britain.
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I sincerely hope not.
Only just got rid of these;

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I’m joking. Relax everyone.
 
Where are people like the sadly departed Gerald Kaufman when we most need them?

Essential viewing in my opinion if only to bring some context and balance into the public discourse on what seems to be an insoluble problem. As relevant now as it was then; if not more so.

 
inchy14 said:
True but he’s a member of their parliament, he’s not supposed to be a fucking terrorist but he’s certainly speaking and acting like one the genocidal ****.
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Yes he is, and he symbolises everything that has gone wrong with politics in Israel and general warning against the PR system it mean’s nasty parties can punch well above their electoral weight
 
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