NHS Strike

[Blue Hefner]

Reading this thread has only reaffirmed my blief that the goverment, media etc have done a great job in dividing the working class.

Whether you are employed in the public or private sector, employed or unemployed, disabled, an imigrant or born here - we should sand togther and try and raise all our wages/working condiditions not point fingures and squabble amongst ourselves

The establishment and big business are laughing at us all. As we argue amongst ourseleves, their profits are going through the roof and the political elite continue to feather their own nests

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Tory cunts.

 

[blueinsa]

Reading this thread has only reaffirmed my blief that the goverment, media etc have done a great job in dividing the working class.

Whether you are employed in the public or private sector, employed or unemployed, disabled, an imigrant or born here - we should sand togther and try and raise all our wages/working condiditions not point fingures and squabble amongst ourselves

The establishment and big business are laughing at us all. As we argue amongst ourseleves, their profits are going through the roof and the political elite continue to feather their own nests

Summed up perfectly mate.

 

[urmston]

Reading this thread has only reaffirmed my blief that the goverment, media etc have done a great job in dividing the working class.

Whether you are employed in the public or private sector, employed or unemployed, disabled, an imigrant or born here - we should sand togther and try and raise all our wages/working condiditions not point fingures and squabble amongst ourselves

The establishment and big business are laughing at us all. As we argue amongst ourseleves, their profits are going through the roof and the political elite continue to feather their own nests

A large divide which has opened up in the working population in recent years is the one between public sector and private sector workers.

Private sector workers have been increasingly exposed to all sorts of economic factors which have worsened wage rates, terms and conditions and security of employment.

Public sector workers have been insulated from all this to a large degree, especially NHS staff. Their pay has suffered, but not as much as that of the rest of us, and by and large they still enjoy the excellent terms and conditions which many more of us used to enjoy before times got hard - 37 hour working weeks, superb pensions, high levels of job security, generous holiday allowances, paid overtime etc etc.

Public sector staff are very eager indeed for this division to remain. They have no interest whatsoever in a 'we are all in this together' approach. They want to their relatively good times to continue, and they want the rest of us to cough up more money to ensure it does. So as they get a bit richer, we get a bit poorer, increasing the divide. They aren't interested in solidarity with the broader working population, just in their money.

Any taxpayer in the private sector who is considering 'solidarity' with and support for striking public sector workers should remember this.

 

[malg]

Public sector workers have been insulated from all this to a large degree, especially NHS staff.

I don't get the 'especially NHS staff' bit. Why have they been especially insulated? I'm not a leftie, so don't have a cross to bear on this, but I'm a bit surprised that anyone would single NHS staff out over say the police, or military, or civil servants etc.

Public Sector v Private Sector would be an interesting thread.

 

[law74]

Reading this thread has only reaffirmed my blief that the goverment, media etc have done a great job in dividing the working class.

Whether you are employed in the public or private sector, employed or unemployed, disabled, an imigrant or born here - we should sand togther and try and raise all our wages/working condiditions not point fingures and squabble amongst ourselves

The establishment and big business are laughing at us all. As we argue amongst ourseleves, their profits are going through the roof and the political elite continue to feather their own nests

A large divide which has opened up in the working population in recent years is the one between public sector and private sector workers.

Private sector workers have been increasingly exposed to all sorts of economic factors which have worsened wage rates, terms and conditions and security of employment.

Public sector workers have been insulated from all this to a large degree, especially NHS staff. Their pay has suffered, but not as much as that of the rest of us, and by and large they still enjoy the excellent terms and conditions which many more of us used to enjoy before times got hard - 37 hour working weeks, superb pensions, high levels of job security, generous holiday allowances, paid overtime etc etc.

Public sector staff are very eager indeed for this division to remain. They have no interest whatsoever in a 'we are all in this together' approach. They want to their relatively good times to continue, and they want the rest of us to cough up more money to ensure it does. So as they get a bit richer, we get a bit poorer, increasing the divide. They aren't interested in solidarity with the broader working population, just in their money.

Any taxpayer in the private sector who is considering 'solidarity' with and support for striking public sector workers should remember this.

Total bullshit.
at the Union conference a few years ago a fund raising evening was held for the workers that had occupied their plant to prevent the owners closing the site and moving the operation to India. It was a full house.
I mave attended and contributed to many a private sector fispute, though sadly too many workers are not "unionised" and willing to stand up for their rights

 

[urmston]

Reading this thread has only reaffirmed my blief that the goverment, media etc have done a great job in dividing the working class.

Whether you are employed in the public or private sector, employed or unemployed, disabled, an imigrant or born here - we should sand togther and try and raise all our wages/working condiditions not point fingures and squabble amongst ourselves

The establishment and big business are laughing at us all. As we argue amongst ourseleves, their profits are going through the roof and the political elite continue to feather their own nests

A large divide which has opened up in the working population in recent years is the one between public sector and private sector workers.

Private sector workers have been increasingly exposed to all sorts of economic factors which have worsened wage rates, terms and conditions and security of employment.

Public sector workers have been insulated from all this to a large degree, especially NHS staff. Their pay has suffered, but not as much as that of the rest of us, and by and large they still enjoy the excellent terms and conditions which many more of us used to enjoy before times got hard - 37 hour working weeks, superb pensions, high levels of job security, generous holiday allowances, paid overtime etc etc.

Public sector staff are very eager indeed for this division to remain. They have no interest whatsoever in a 'we are all in this together' approach. They want to their relatively good times to continue, and they want the rest of us to cough up more money to ensure it does. So as they get a bit richer, we get a bit poorer, increasing the divide. They aren't interested in solidarity with the broader working population, just in their money.

Any taxpayer in the private sector who is considering 'solidarity' with and support for striking public sector workers should remember this.

Total bullshit.
at the Union conference a few years ago a fund raising evening was held for the workers that had occupied their plant to prevent the owners closing the site and moving the operation to India. It was a full house.
I mave attended and contributed to many a private sector fispute, though sadly too many workers are not "unionised" and willing to stand up for their rights

Well, it is obvious to me that the striking NHS staff are either ignorant of the fact that many millions who pay their wages are suffering at least as badly and in many cases much worse then they are, or that they do know and just don't care when they demand more money from them.

I suspect the former. Public sector staff are notoriously clueless about money and how to use it efficiently. They think it grows on trees and seem to have little idea that it all has to be created by private sector workers before any can be used to fund the NHS, the education system etc.

I suggest the government forces NHS and other staff to go on brief secondments to private businesses to see just how hard people work to make that wealth, and how most of them don't get nearly as good terms and conditions as they do.

Perhaps then we'd hear less of their frequent self-pitying complaints of low morale, low pay and other imagined injustices.

 

[Ammy]

Equally, it might make for interesting viewing to watch someone, who perhaps spends an inordinate amount of time on the internet, criticising our NHS workers, spend a few months doing their job.

 

[law74]

A large divide which has opened up in the working population in recent years is the one between public sector and private sector workers.

Private sector workers have been increasingly exposed to all sorts of economic factors which have worsened wage rates, terms and conditions and security of employment.

Public sector workers have been insulated from all this to a large degree, especially NHS staff. Their pay has suffered, but not as much as that of the rest of us, and by and large they still enjoy the excellent terms and conditions which many more of us used to enjoy before times got hard - 37 hour working weeks, superb pensions, high levels of job security, generous holiday allowances, paid overtime etc etc.

Public sector staff are very eager indeed for this division to remain. They have no interest whatsoever in a 'we are all in this together' approach. They want to their relatively good times to continue, and they want the rest of us to cough up more money to ensure it does. So as they get a bit richer, we get a bit poorer, increasing the divide. They aren't interested in solidarity with the broader working population, just in their money.

Any taxpayer in the private sector who is considering 'solidarity' with and support for striking public sector workers should remember this.

Total bullshit.
at the Union conference a few years ago a fund raising evening was held for the workers that had occupied their plant to prevent the owners closing the site and moving the operation to India. It was a full house.
I mave attended and contributed to many a private sector fispute, though sadly too many workers are not "unionised" and willing to stand up for their rights

Well, it is obvious to me that the striking NHS staff are either ignorant of the fact that many millions who pay their wages are suffering at least as badly and in many cases much worse then they are, or that they do know and just don't care when they demand more money from them.

I suspect the former. Public sector staff are notoriously clueless about money and how to use it efficiently. They think it grows on trees and seem to have little idea that it all has to be created by private sector workers before any can be used to fund the NHS, the education system etc.

I suggest the government forces NHS and other staff to go on brief secondments to private businesses to see just how hard people work to make that wealth, and how most of them don't get nearly as good terms and conditions as they do.

Perhaps then we'd hear less of their frequent self-pitying complaints of low morale, low pay and other imagined injustices.

Having worked in a number of private industries before starting my current job, they were all better paid than my starting salary in the civil service (some by a great amount), and in all of them there were quite a few very easy jobs to be had, though the lack of stimulas made for the forty hours per week (including paid meal breaks) seem more like 80

 

[malg]

Haha.....just realised that Urmston has started wuming. Don't know when it officially started, but that last post has just proved it.

 

[Rascal]

Equally, it might make for interesting viewing to watch someone, who perhaps spends an inordinate amount of time on the internet, criticising our NHS workers, spend a few months doing their job.

It would be wonderful to see Urmston do a 14 hours shift the support nurses do just once.


A truly laughable point as well made a few pages back was NHS staff sick allowance. NHS staff are not allowed to work when sick so infection cant be spread. If you are in hospital yourself the last thing you need is a sick nurse tending you. That would be fucking insane.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Haha.....just realised that Urmston has started wuming. Don't know when it officially started, but that last post has just proved it.

I'm still thinking he's simply a whopper.

Please tell us your occupation Urmston?

 

[Blue Punter]

Haha.....just realised that Urmston has started wuming. Don't know when it officially started, but that last post has just proved it.

I'm still thinking he's simply a whopper.

Please tell us your occupation Urmston?

Sounds like someone who used to be a guard at Alcatraz.

Back on topic, the tories are playing a dangerous game here. A lot of people rightly value the work of NHS staff. Could come back to bite them on the arse at the next election.

 

[malg]

Haha.....just realised that Urmston has started wuming. Don't know when it officially started, but that last post has just proved it.

I'm still thinking he's simply a whopper.

Please tell us your occupation Urmston?

Sounds like someone who used to be a guard at Alcatraz.

Back on topic, the tories are playing a dangerous game here. A lot of people rightly value the work of NHS staff. Could come back to bite them on the arse at the next election.

I can't see that the NHS will be any safer in Labour hands. The problem is that throwing money at it is not the solution. There are far, far too many layers of management, and way too much time spent on targets. Granted that targets are needed, but the administrative burden that goes along with them is shocking. There are managers, with their own team of administrators who are responsible for just keeping track of the targets. If targets are missed, then this team will harangue the clinical staff, and therein lies the problem. Clinical staff will spend an inordinate amount of their time on administrative tasks.

There is a happy medium to be had, but unfortunately the ship has sailed. Rather than reducing the admin burden in the NHS, every year it gets worse. Labour didn't lessen this burden when they were in, so I can't for the life of me see why the Tories are being blamed for fucking it up any more than Labour did. Oh, and as I've said before, Brown burdened the NHS with a fucking shocking amount of PFI deals, and whether Labour voters like it or not, the NHS are paying through the fucking nose for those deals.

 

[urmston]

Haha.....just realised that Urmston has started wuming. Don't know when it officially started, but that last post has just proved it.

I'm still thinking he's simply a whopper.

Please tell us your occupation Urmston?

Sounds like someone who used to be a guard at Alcatraz.

Back on topic, the tories are playing a dangerous game here. A lot of people rightly value the work of NHS staff. Could come back to bite them on the arse at the next election.

I value the work of NHS staff - at about 5 to 10% less than we pay them at the moment.

Like the government I certainly don't value it at 1% more than they are currently paid. They are still getting quite good wages in historical terms because of the large amounts of our money Blair and Brown threw at them without any economic reason for doing so and to no corresponding benefit to the public.

We can probably keep them on a wage freeze for a few more years before some medical staff are less easy to recruit and retain, and we could probably sack many of the NHS's bloated bureaucracy immediately without any loss of service to patients.

 

[Rascal]

I value the work of NHS staff - at about 5 to 10% less than we pay them at the moment.

Like the government I certainly don't value it at 1% more than they are currently paid. They are still getting quite good wages in historical terms because of the large amounts of our money Blair and Brown threw at them without any economic reason for doing so and to no corresponding benefit to the public.

We can probably keep them on a wage freeze for a few more years before some medical staff are less easy to recruit and retain, and we could probably sack many of the NHS's bloated bureaucracy immediately without any loss of service to patients.

What are your dealings with the NHS? And what do you actually do as a job?

This would help so people could see what angle your views are coming from

Cheers

 

[urmston]

I value the work of NHS staff - at about 5 to 10% less than we pay them at the moment.

Like the government I certainly don't value it at 1% more than they are currently paid. They are still getting quite good wages in historical terms because of the large amounts of our money Blair and Brown threw at them without any economic reason for doing so and to no corresponding benefit to the public.

We can probably keep them on a wage freeze for a few more years before some medical staff are less easy to recruit and retain, and we could probably sack many of the NHS's bloated bureaucracy immediately without any loss of service to patients.

What are your dealings with the NHS? And what do you actually do as a job?

This would help so people could see what angle your views are coming from

Cheers

My dealings with the NHS are mainly as one of the people who pays for it via my taxes, something I'm pleased to do as long as the cash is used wisely, and not for staff pay rises which are not necessary or other wastes of hard earned taxpayers cash.

I have been to see a GP two or three times in the last 10 years or so, and I visit an NHS dentist once every six months, most recently last week when I paid £219 for two fillings and a crown.

My occupation is irrelevant.

 

[Rascal]

I value the work of NHS staff - at about 5 to 10% less than we pay them at the moment.

Like the government I certainly don't value it at 1% more than they are currently paid. They are still getting quite good wages in historical terms because of the large amounts of our money Blair and Brown threw at them without any economic reason for doing so and to no corresponding benefit to the public.

We can probably keep them on a wage freeze for a few more years before some medical staff are less easy to recruit and retain, and we could probably sack many of the NHS's bloated bureaucracy immediately without any loss of service to patients.

What are your dealings with the NHS? And what do you actually do as a job?

This would help so people could see what angle your views are coming from

Cheers

My dealings with the NHS are mainly as one of the people who pays for it via my taxes, something I'm pleased to do as long as the cash is used wisely, and not for staff pay rises which are not necessary or other wastes of hard earned taxpayers cash.

I have been to see a GP two or three times in the last 10 years or so, and I visit an NHS dentist once every six months, most recently last week when I paid £219 for two fillings and a crown.

My occupation is irrelevant.

So your personal interaction with the NHS is very limited indeed. Almost non existent in fact, but you claim to know they dont need pay rises etc etc

Your occupation is relevant as perhaps people with lots of personal interaction with the NHS can question why you hold the views you do.

 

[BlueBearBoots]

I agree urmston's occupation is irrelevant he is posting about the economic sense of giving employees a wage increase when they are earning a good wage and there are plenty of people to replace any that leave.



Maybe I've been unlucky but a midwife left my daughter in the final stages of labour because her shift had ended, no problem with that because someone else replaced her but this can't be an isolated incident? Last year my dad was sat uncomfortably in a wheelchair for 2 hours waiting to be taken somewhere else for tests and about 5 nurses spent half an hour at the nurses station presenting a birthday cake to a nurse, blowing out candles and chatting, they weren't on a break. So please don't make them all out to be angels working for a pittance I could give lots more examples and yes of course examples of good nursing too, but good nursing is what we expect and what they are paid for. If I left a client mid phone call because it was 5.00pm I wouldn't keep my job for long

 

[malg]

I agree urmston's occupation is irrelevant he is posting about the economic sense of giving employees a wage increase when they are earning a good wage and there are plenty of people to replace any that leave.



Maybe I've been unlucky but a midwife left my daughter in the final stages of labour because her shift had ended, no problem with that because someone else replaced her but this can't be an isolated incident? Last year my dad was sat uncomfortably in a wheelchair for 2 hours waiting to be taken somewhere else for tests and about 5 nurses spent half an hour at the nurses station presenting a birthday cake to a nurse, blowing out candles and chatting, they weren't on a break. So please don't make them all out to be angels working for a pittance I could give lots more examples and yes of course examples of good nursing too, but good nursing is what we expect and what they are paid for. If I left a client mid phone call because it was 5.00pm I wouldn't keep my job for long

That midwife, at the very least I would suggest is unprofessional, and at worst she is neglecting a patient. The nurses having a birthday celebration again is unprofessional, and a decent matron/sister would not allow it.