PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

manimanc said:
Was in the supermarket today and had a city tracksuit top on, stood in the queue and some oversized utd fan, I'll use the term fan loosely as the spray on top he wore was anything but loose, pointed and said how are the 115 charges getting on. As I was a bit fuzzy from a few beers the night before It took me a few seconds to realise what fatty was on about. So I thought I'd ask him to name every single one. Go on mate I egged him on, what are the charges for? Erm...erm....ermmm being bitter was his reply and walked off.

I just laughed to myself thinking look at what we've turned these pricks into, we've ruined them.

Made my day.
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Now I know what to say if I get people asking me that lol
 
Dribble said:
1. So why haven't the UK authorities been called in to investigate us for fraud?

2. This is the point everyone's making! When you cut to the chase, this is the logical conclusion you arrive at.

3. Years ago I made a Directors loan which is perfectly legal within business.

A: If my son started a business & needed to use my companies services, & I personally paid his invoice, is that illegal?

4. I refer you to answer 3 above.

All of the above are the reasons City sound confident of beating the PL's accounting fraud charges.
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I've already answered these in the above post but I'll do it again for you.

#1 because its an unwinnable case with no evidence. There's zero chance of a conviction

#2 not sure what you mean here

#3 yes directors loans are fine, I've got one. They go down as a Directors loan in the P&L as a debt for the director not revenue, capital investment or equity.

#A yes that is illegal. Why would a company A charge another company B and expect company A to pay the bill. What's actually happening here is you wanted to invest in your son's business and that is fine but it has to go down in the accounts as capital investment or equity sale. What it can be classed as is revenue that is overstating revenue and is classed as accounting fraud.

Hope this clears it up for you
 
manimanc said:
Was in the supermarket today and had a city tracksuit top on, stood in the queue and some oversized utd fan, I'll use the term fan loosely as the spray on top he wore was anything but loose, pointed and said how are the 115 charges getting on. As I was a bit fuzzy from a few beers the night before It took me a few seconds to realise what fatty was on about. So I thought I'd ask him to name every single one. Go on mate I egged him on, what are the charges for? Erm...erm....ermmm being bitter was his reply and walked off.

I just laughed to myself thinking look at what we've turned these pricks into, we've ruined them.

Made my day.
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The charges are not for being bitter. They are for being better.
 
Dribble said:
I've met the odd fan with those sentiments, but the majority I happen across haven't got a clue what the charges are, what the case is about or know how FPP works. As far as they're concerned we're cheats & we're guilty.

I just clicked the link & viewed the Sad Café thread on our charges & it's woefully & chronically pathetic! They want our titles stripped, & City not only banned from the PL, but from the Football League too!

They want our local derby to be against FC Utd, & anything less will prove City's corruption, because it's proof we've paid someone off after being caught bang to rights. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cit...pl-with-numerous-ffp-breaches.464361/page-152
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Just looked at the link & it’s quite shocking that they have such entrenched beliefs about what we’re supposed to have done. They don’t actually know & don’t give any details - but they have a list of the punishments we can expect.
The media are to blame - & they’re just as bad.
 
BerkshireBlue said:
I've already answered these in the above post but I'll do it again for you.

#1 because its an unwinnable case with no evidence. There's zero chance of a conviction

#2 not sure what you mean here

#3 yes directors loans are fine, I've got one. They go down as a Directors loan in the P&L as a debt for the director not revenue, capital investment or equity.

#A yes that is illegal. Why would a company A charge another company B and expect company A to pay the bill. What's actually happening here is you wanted to invest in your son's business and that is fine but it has to go down in the accounts as capital investment or equity sale. What it can be classed as is revenue that is overstating revenue and is classed as accounting fraud.

Hope this clears it up for you
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Not quite. Read A again. I never invested in my son's business, I paid his bill personally to help him out, not from my company's account.

As for the rest, you're arguing with yourself because I've repeated most of it already, but added scenarios which you haven't addressed.

The short & tall of it is we're essentially being accused of financial fraud. BUT it's financial fraud based on UEFA/PL "rules", NOT UK Law.

If what we'd done was against UK Law, do you really think the PL wouldn't have already called the Plod, FCA, HMRC & the SFO?

This is the point everyone's making, & you keep going round in circles with. The PL can believe what they like.

When they produce irrefutable empirical evidence, then it's time to start cacking our pants. In the meantime, just trust the process & the serious ultra professionals involved on City's behalf.
 
Just read in the Times that in addition to Scruffy Jim buying 25% of existing shares he is also making a new equity investment of $300m which will allow them to spend big (again) and avoid issues with FFP that they would otherwise have had.

I understood that owner equity wasn’t allowed against FFP and it was purely revenue based. Am I wrong or is it The Times that don’t understand FFP or are there just different rules for red shirt clubs?
 
Eebo said:
Just read in the Times that in addition to Scruffy Jim buying 25% of existing shares he is also making a new equity investment of $300m which will allow them to spend big (again) and avoid issues with FFP that they would otherwise have had.

I understood that owner equity wasn’t allowed against FFP and it was purely revenue based. Am I wrong or is it The Times that don’t understand FFP or are there just different rules for red shirt clubs?
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It's ManUre. Different rules apply. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠⊙⁠_⁠ʖ⁠⊙⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
I think most fans think like this. None of my mates who are a mix of Arse, utd, Chelsea or Liverpool fans ever mention the charges. Its only the Internet warriors that focus on this in my opinion.
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Yes. Social media are not typical in any sphere, they just represent people with a strong view, often nonsensical. Let’s not fall into the trap.
Dribble said:
Not quite. Read A again. I never invested in my son's business, I paid his bill personally to help him out, not from my company's account.

As for the rest, you're arguing with yourself because I've repeated most of it already, but added scenarios which you haven't addressed.

The short & tall of it is we're essentially being accused of financial fraud. BUT it's financial fraud based on UEFA/PL "rules", NOT UK Law.

If what we'd done was against UK Law, do you really think the PL wouldn't have already called the Plod, FCA, HMRC & the SFO?

This is the point everyone's making, & you keep going round in circles with. The PL can believe what they like.

When they produce irrefutable empirical evidence, then it's time to start cacking our pants. In the meantime, just trust the process & the serious ultra professionals involved on City's behalf.
Click to expand...

Eebo said:
Just read in the Times that in addition to Scruffy Jim buying 25% of existing shares he is also making a new equity investment of $300m which will allow them to spend big (again) and avoid issues with FFP that they would otherwise have had.

I understood that owner equity wasn’t allowed against FFP and it was purely revenue based. Am I wrong or is it The Times that don’t understand FFP or are there just different rules for red shirt clubs?
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The owner can lend to the club without ffp probs. See Abramovich, Mansour. Interest is included in the expenditure for ffp, as is any application of the loan to a purchase.
 
Dribble said:
I thought sine FFP it was only new owners like Todd Bowlegs at the Chavs?
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I think just lending is ok but ffp arises if the club spends that money. So a loan for infrastructure is free of ffp, whereas a loan to buy a player is not. The new owner rule is about being allowed to overspend provided a plan to get on an even keel within 3 years is in place.
PS I have not yet caught up with the latest rules, so this might be bollocks!
 
KS55 said:
I think just lending is ok but ffp arises if the club spends that money. So a loan for infrastructure is free of ffp, whereas a loan to buy a player is not. The new owner rule is about being allowed to overspend provided a plan to get on an even keel within 3 years is in place.
PS I have not yet caught up with the latest rules, so this might be boolocks!
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Yes infrastructure is unlimited. FFP only affects first team players & wages.
 
Dribble said:
Not quite. Read A again. I never invested in my son's business, I paid his bill personally to help him out, not from my company's account.

As for the rest, you're arguing with yourself because I've repeated most of it already, but added scenarios which you haven't addressed.

The short & tall of it is we're essentially being accused of financial fraud. BUT it's financial fraud based on UEFA/PL "rules", NOT UK Law.

If what we'd done was against UK Law, do you really think the PL wouldn't have already called the Plod, FCA, HMRC & the SFO?

This is the point everyone's making, & you keep going round in circles with. The PL can believe what they like.

When they produce irrefutable empirical evidence, then it's time to start cacking our pants. In the meantime, just trust the process & the serious ultra professionals involved on City's behalf.
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Don’t forget the endless list of corrupt companies all willingly concealing evidence of our alleged fiddling! Just so little city can win a few trophies.

Etihad already lied to CAS so spinning a tale to the premier will be no problem! All those high end CEO’s will be gathering mountains of evidence to support their own position incase the old bill turn up.

I would be very surprised if city’s case isn't water tight. Not one person involved with city from a 3rd party commercial aspect has anything to gain by city getting charged but a lot to lose so I would imagine they have their statements ready to go backed up with irrefutable evidence.

Not 1 company has distanced themselves from the club. Tells you they know what this is all about.

Political games at play that all this is. Unfortunately city fans are caught in the crossfire. Khaldoon is a juggernaut and won’t be so easily swayed now he has got the measure of this ffp/p&s nonsense.

Apologies for the rant. Getting rightly on here -:)
 
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CC1 said:
Just looked at the link & it’s quite shocking that they have such entrenched beliefs about what we’re supposed to have done. They don’t actually know & don’t give any details - but they have a list of the punishments we can expect.
The media are to blame - & they’re just as bad.
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The media encouraged by Gill and Parry et al have created this whole agenda - (the 115 charges was created for media consumption) that we are cheats, that we are guilty etc (they even discuss our punishments) and they have offered absolutely no evidence to support these unsubstantiated allegations. The reporting of the allegations against us mirrors that of Nazi Germany or Putins Russia, there is no balance, no discussion of the facts, not a single journalist has fought our corner, it’s just mob rule with plenty of undertones of xenophobia, serving up a stream of hatred and bile for the redshirt masses.
 
nmc said:
The media encouraged by Gill and Parry et al have created this whole agenda - (the 115 charges was created for media consumption) that we are cheats, that we are guilty etc (they even discuss our punishments) and they have offered absolutely no evidence to support these unsubstantiated allegations. The reporting of the allegations against us mirrors that of Nazi Germany or Putins Russia, there is no balance, no discussion of the facts, not a single journalist has fought our corner, it’s just mob rule with plenty of undertones of xenophobia, serving up a stream of hatred and bile for the redshirt masses.
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thought Samuel from the Daily Mail has
 
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