PL charge City for alleged breaches of financial rules

Judge Roughneck said:
I don't think most neutral supporters are that bothered about what happens to City.
It's the supporters of the North London clubs, that lot just outside Manchester and to some extent Chelsea. But most of all, the weird cult at the end of the East Lancs. They and their owners are the driving force.
I don't think most other fans give a hoot either way. They know it will only mean the above clubs vieing against each other again to be top and spurs 1 place nearer winning a title in colour. Get it bottomed once and for all and their whining will be white noise.
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wasn't it spurs allegedly behind pushing the PL to finally pull the trigger?
 
StillBluessinceHydeRoad said:
Thanks for the clarification, PB. You have helped clear the muddle that passes for both my brain and memory these days! I think I was confusing image rights with sponsorship and I thank you for clarifying UEFA's positions on these. I presume the independent commission would be foolish to take a view different from UEFA and CAS. Thanks, it is much appreciated.
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It's my pleasure.

That's an interesting point about the position taken by the PL's independent commission, and got me thinking. The PL's PSR are more generic than the FFP ones, which are quite specific.

FFP goes into detail about owner investment, about allowable expenditure and other things. The PL Handbook only talks about submitting accounts, and the process for doing that, acting in good faith, and generic requirements like that. The only area they go into specific detail on is associated party transactions.

So the commission won't have any empirical yardstick to judge our charges against. They could, for example, say that the Etisalat sponsorship (where ADUG seemingly paid upfront before being reimbursed) was not done in good faith. They could take the same view of the Mancini contract, or the players' image rights payments. That's potentially a very different test to the PSR or FFP financial calculations, or CAS declaring that there was no evidence of disguised owner investment within the Etihad contract.

CAS essentially asked:
  • Did Etihad pay what was in the contract?
  • Was any of that sponsorship funded by Sheikh Mansour?
  • If not, how was the additional money due funded?
  • Did Etihad pay a fair market price?
  • Did City provide adequate exposure for Etihad as part of that contract?
They were happy that there was an acceptable answer for all those questions.

Asking "Did City act in good faith?" is more subjective. Having said that, I'm sure we'll be bringing the CAS output as part of our evidence, and I think they'd be foolish to ignore it.
 
ballbag said:
They're thick, though.

Liverpool fans won't/can't accept that their club was languishing in Div 2 for a decade before a sugar daddy got them promoted and laid the foundations of all their success for the decades to come.

United fans can't accept that the class of 92 was added to a spending spree from 89 onwards for Wallaces, Pallister, Webb, etc. Again, the foundations of their success for the decades to come.

But they'll tell you its not the same as City. It is though.
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Class of '92 were shit

Fitted into a team of expensive buys

Played a part in hoovering up domestic trophies in a 2 team league.

Only 1 good enough to warrant interest from Big European Club and fucked off at the first opportunity.

The rest stayed because no other decent side wanted them.

Did FUCK ALL on the International stage!

The myth of '92
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Even though Sheikh Mansour has comfortably made at least £3bn paper profit so far on his investments in City and the city of Manchester itself Jordan still claims his motivation for all this is “image washing.” He really is a moron when it comes to financial matters.
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Jordon is a moron when it comes to a lot of matters, the guy is an arrigant synical fucking prick with a chip on his shoulder.
 
projectriver said:
Because there are so many nice comments, I feel the need to say thanks again for the kind words and comments. Really quite overwhelming level of feedback and mostly positive (really very few negative things even on Twitter from non-City fans). Even my wife likes me today.

As has been said it has been one Talksport's fastest growing videos ever with very many knock on reports so there has definitely been a level of cut through (for good or bad I guess).

Obviously, I've pissed off Everton fans but thats because I actually read the IC decision as they should. They have been let down by their club.
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Congrats on that but it also frustrates the life out of me. The level of interest and positive comments just goes to show that TS have a platform whereby they don’t need this good cop/bad cop routine. They can and should be using the platform to have informed people on there to drive real discussion. Instead we have 350+ days a year of inane rambling from people who think they know what they’re talking about but clearly don’t have a clue.

Even after yesterdays excellent, informative piece from you, the fallout was “finance expert says City will be relegated” and today we are back to Simon largely ignoring everything from yesterday and it’s “I believe they have a case to answer” and “the people I speak to”, almost as if he didn’t have a discussion with an expert yesterday, who told him exactly how it is.

It’s as if TS have decided that their own audience is too thick to understand real discussion. They may be right.
 
ysmsa said:
Class of '92 were shit

Fitted into a team of expensive buys

Played a part in hoovering up domestic trophies in a 2 team league.

Only 1 good enough to warrant interest from Big European Club and fucked off at the first opportunity.

The rest stayed because no other decent side wanted them.

Did FUCK ALL on the International stage!

The myth of '92
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That could be the most blue-tinted specs post in a long time! Haha! And I’m absolutely no fan of the rags or the Class of 92 or any other “class” of players they’ve had!
 
Dodge said:
That's pretty much the conversation I had in Madrid with a finance guy who is on the board at Altrincham FC, but also does some work at City.

He obviously couldn't say much to some random Blue on a Chumps League jolly, but simply stated that our books are public record and matter of fact...the charges are not. Our accounts are audited, checked, double checked and audited again, before publishing. The PL charges were not even proof read before being put in the public domain, as was evident with incorrect dates, paragraph references and included charges that were time-barred by their very own regulations.

The comments above from @halfcenturyup pretty much reflect his view. Forget the accounts, they are bombproof. These jaw-dropping accusations, directly questioning the honesty and integrity of some of the most well respected people on the planet, will have consequences well beyond the confines of the PL kangaroo court.

We will take our accusers to the fucking cleaners, of that there is no doubt.
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Similar to what I posted yesterday. Masters and the PL totally out of their depth here .The consequences are mind blowing and Masters effectively a dead man walking ( career not literally ha ;-) )
Where does the PL go from here ? Pretty much unfit for purpose……… step in the regulator !
 
Man_City_Loyal said:
wasn't it spurs allegedly behind pushing the PL to finally pull the trigger?
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And then Joe Lewis got busted some time after our breaches were made public. Now his charge sheet if proven is serious stuff. Whats goes around comes around. Maybe one or two more skeletons will be coming out of cupboards when we are cleared or even sooner. Get the Guinness out;-)
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
It's my pleasure.

That's an interesting point about the position taken by the PL's independent commission, and got me thinking. The PL's PSR are more generic than the FFP ones, which are quite specific.

FFP goes into detail about owner investment, about allowable expenditure and other things. The PL Handbook only talks about submitting accounts, and the process for doing that, acting in good faith, and generic requirements like that. The only area they go into specific detail on is associated party transactions.

So the commission won't have any empirical yardstick to judge our charges against. They could, for example, say that the Etisalat sponsorship (where ADUG seemingly paid upfront before being reimbursed) was not done in good faith. They could take the same view of the Mancini contract, or the players' image rights payments. That's potentially a very different test to the PSR or FFP financial calculations, or CAS declaring that there was no evidence of disguised owner investment within the Etihad contract.

CAS essentially asked:
  • Did Etihad pay what was in the contract?
  • Was any of that sponsorship funded by Sheikh Mansour?
  • If not, how was the additional money due funded?
  • Did Etihad pay a fair market price?
  • Did City provide adequate exposure for Etihad as part of that contract?
They were happy that there was an acceptable answer for all those questions.

Asking "Did City act in good faith?" is more subjective. Having said that, I'm sure we'll be bringing the CAS output as part of our evidence, and I think they'd be foolish to ignore it.
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Maybe there is a legal definition for ‘acting in good faith’ . I find it difficult to understand how given the paucity of evidence an independent commission could reach a verdict that we had.
 
projectriver said:
Clearly I wasn't suggesting relegation for non-cooperation. You can't really believe that is what I said, meant or that people interpreted.
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The problem with speculation about potential punishment is that there is nothing in the PL Handbook about the scale or severity of sanctions. UEFA published a clear tariff of penalties for failing FFP, dependent on the seriousness of the breach and whether it was a first or repeat offenc, so we can safely talk about the scale of any punishment in that situation. Everton may try to use that as part of their appeal.

But the PL doesn't, so in my opinion it's unhelpful to speculate, using words like 'relegation'. And, being pedantic, the PL can't relegate us, as they don't control the lower leagues. As with Bury and the EFL, they could potentially expel us and we'd have to apply to the EFL.

I know it's easy to be wise when you're not the one in front of the camera or microphone but I think my answer to the "What will happen if they're found guilty" question would have been something like "We just don't know. It will totally depend on whether we're found to have breached any of the specified rules in any of the specified years. There are no indicators as to potential sanctions in the PL's rules but, at the very, very worst, there's the possibility we could be expelled from the PL. But that would involve quite an egregious breach of those rules and I don't see that scenario as a likely outcome. Even in (in my view) the unlikely event that we are found to have committed a minor breach, the punishment should be proportionate".
 
Gundoggin said:
Similar to what I posted yesterday. Masters and the PL totally out of their depth here .The consequences are mind blowing and Masters effectively a dead man walking ( career not literally ha ;-) )
Where does the PL go from here ? Pretty much unfit for purpose……… step in the regulator !
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It should have all been put to bed when cas, an independent court, cleared us, after the kangaroo court of UEFA found us guilty and banned us for two years. Not happy with that the usual letter writing suspects badgered the premier league to go after us and foolishly they did. All they have done is make a rod for their own back here. If we are cleared and if we can prove the old redshirt cartel forced the premier league to go after us, then they are all fucked. It proves the redshirt are running a supposed impartial league.
 
The blue phantom said:
He simply has to be unwell Harris to have this fixation on us. Now even going to the extremes of "I want disgruntled ex city employees to get in touch with stories of malpractices and cover ups'....24 hours a fuckin day we are in his head.

We all know he's never off this forum too, So Harris I just want to call you a **** while you're reading this.
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Ye but don’t forget he’s not well. Bless
 
manimanc said:
After watching the video yesterday of stefan with the gobshite I've come to the conclusion that Jordan is on the spectrum. His behaviour and inability to stop himself from cutting in when people are speaking is rude and probably out of his control.
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It’s what comes from not being stopped by others and being so up your own arse. People who think they are something just run over others until they are stopped. Sadly, Jordan’s ears were too closed to even hear @projectriver facts stopping him in his tracks, and he just carried on with his own agenda.

To my mind, and ear, Jordan seemed like he knew he was outgunned, so (knowing it’s a radio show for most) wanted to keep talking over Stefan to try to not look the fool.

Didn’t work out too well for him.
 
city2 said:
I think if City are found guilty which I do not think they will then they will bring the Premier league to an end. City will have their own accusations about the red clubs.
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Disagree as I’ve said many times this smoking gun really doesn’t exist. If city had anything on the other clubs it would be out.
 
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