Political relations between UK-EU

[mcfc1632]

UK music industry adds about £6 BILLION to the economy. Trifling?

And you mention this in the context that of this exchange because.......?

The poster that I replied to was linking to an article that bemoans that organisations such as the LSO have to complete relevant travel documentation when travelling to EU member countries to perform. Which will be exactly what they have to do when travelling to non-EU countries.

Given that the UK voted to Leave the EU in 2016 and that we have all been able to see how the negotiations have taken place during the last 4 years - then you could perhaps be forgiven for expecting that organisations that are used to travelling abroad, including outside the EU, to perform should be familiar with what is required and will have made appropriate preparations - no?

 

[Ban-jani]

But as @Ban-jani says .... the UK is not moving towards a facist government.

You’re so unbelievably naive when it comes to political ideologies mate, and I’m going to try and help you.

Hannan is a Libertarian, as Rascal says, he’s a free market classic liberal in many respects and that’s a completely different ideology.

You seem to struggle with the differences on the right and how libertarianism/neoliberalism, is different to the far right. It’s generally an economic position, based on freedom, that is totally not the same as the authoritarian right.

That is absolutely on the opposite end of the right wing compass to fascism.

The below might not be completely accurate but Hannan is very much in the purple and fascism is near Hitler in blue.

He’s totally at odds with fascism.

 

[domalino]

I should just set up two separate threads, one for leavers and one for remainers. The two sides could then just project to their own echo chambers, and never the twain shall meet. Would make life easier all round.

You could do a Brexit poll and ban everyone who voted Remain from the pro-Brexit thread and everyone who voted Leave from the anti-Brexit thread.

Then they couldn't even see each others posts.

 

[mcfc1632]

Daniel Hannan is the person behind the Initiative for Free trade. A libertarian ultra free market front..

One of the people involved in Hannan's group and on its International Advisory board is Jorge Quiroga, he was Vice President to Hugo Banzer the brutal Bolivian dictator who protected a man called Klaus Barbie.

For those who have not heard of Klaus Barbie, look him up.

Hannan's fathers name was Hugh Ralston Hannan Wilson, Hannan dropped the Wilson, he claims as a child to have visited family in Santa Cruz Bolivia (Hannan was born in Peru) , Santa Cruz is where Klaus Barbie lived.

Hannan is a man unfit to be in the HoL, he is dangerous, very very fucking dangerous.

But - thankfully then - not a member of the current government and not likely a member of the next government - so not going to be involved in setting UK policy.

Sounds like we should be glad that is the case - but it does make you wonder why the poster made such a big thing about posting the link and suggesting that this fella's views were behind government policy - does it not?

There are many weirdos and fringe groups - from across the political spectrum - and they also are not involved in setting the government policy.

 

[domalino]

You’re so unbelievably naive when it comes to political ideologies mate, and I’m going to try and help you.

Hannan is a Libertarian, as Rascal says, he’s a free market classic liberal in many respects and that’s a completely different ideology.

You seem to struggle with the differences on the right and how libertarianism/neoliberalism, is different to the far right. It’s generally an economic position, based on freedom, that is totally not the same as the authoritarian right.

That is absolutely on the opposite end of the right wing compass to fascism.

The below might not be completely accurate but Hannan is very much in the purple and fascism is near Hitler in blue.

He’s totally at odds with fascism.

View attachment 7833

As much as I despise the man I'm a little bit skeptical of any graph that puts Boris Johnson more right wing than Hitler.

 

[mcfc1632]

Again, not sure having to plan and pay more for something that required less planning and cost less previously, is quite the sunlit uplands we were promised.

Is paying more for everything the Brexit dividend or indeed ‘prospering mightily’ we were promised? Because if it is I’m not sure you have quite grasped the meaning of ‘dividend’ or for that matter ‘prospering’.

Sounds like you were right all along Bob - Brexit is shit what the fuck have we done? ;-)

 

[mcfc1632]

There’d still be arguments.

Though - I bet the Leavers would limit themselves to 'their thread', but.......;-)

 

[BobKowalski]

You’re so unbelievably naive when it comes to political ideologies mate, and I’m going to try and help you.

Hannan is a Libertarian, as Rascal says, he’s a free market classic liberal in many respects and that’s a completely different ideology.

You seem to struggle with the differences on the right and how libertarianism/neoliberalism, is different to the far right. It’s generally an economic position, based on freedom, that is totally not the same as the authoritarian right.

That is absolutely on the opposite end of the right wing compass to fascism.

The below might not be completely accurate but Hannan is very much in the purple and fascism is near Hitler in blue.

He’s totally at odds with fascism.

View attachment 7833

Hannan is an drooling moron. He wrote a piece the other day stating what Britain needed to do was reduce barriers to trade...

...I’m like, what the fuck?

Libertarians are just fascists who haven’t come out of the closet. Stick that on your graph.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Your obsession with this thread you daft pillock. You try to use NI and pretty much anything else in the world as an argument against Brexit. Why you let this rule your life god only knows but it’s very weird mate. You say things like “it just amuses me all this” followed by things like “ I find it hard to stomach” . It appears you try to act all apathetic like you are just passing time on a forum but you let your mask slip.

It’s seems to bother you very much and you may have some personal reason for it but obsessed you absolutely are.

I think if @Ric closed this thread and found a way to not let it spread elsewhere he would be doing everyone’s mental health a lot of good.

Back in the Summer I told the misery merchants to wake up the next day, turn on their computers and look for positives about Brexit. I thought it would do their mental health some good because their obsession with the negatives that they trawl the internet or their Twitter echo chambers for must be doing their general mood no good whatsoever.

Bob replied to that and said something along the lines of “it’s the Leavers role to post positive news about Brexit, it’s my role is to take the piss.”

So he’s not even doing it in good faith. He’s on the WUM. He isn’t here for anything but to oppose anything about Brexit, and he’s not in his own.

It’s just more of this disease of causing divisions in society.

 

[Metal Biker]

As much as I despise the man I'm a little bit skeptical of any graph that puts Boris Johnson more right wing than Hitler.

Because you're not reading it correctly.

Hitler is at the top because he was more 'authoritarian', thus he is more authoritarian than Johnson.

The closer you are to the centre line, the more "centrist" your values are. Johnson is Libertarian Right, Hitler was Authoritarian Right. The graph displays exactly that. For those hard of listening Right Wing views and policies does not automatically equal evil. You can be Authoritarian Left and be a complete bastard.

 

[Ban-jani]

As much as I despise the man I'm a little bit skeptical of any graph that puts Boris Johnson more right wing than Hitler.

It isn’t, it’s put him economically more right wing, not more authoritarian right, which fascism is.

The left to right is economics, the up and down is freedom vs authoritarian

 

[mcfc1632]

How would I know what they do when they tour non EU countries? Perhaps they don’t, perhaps up till now European audiences and the ease of accessing them was sufficient for them to make a decent living. Perhaps they didn’t for example tour Russia or the Middle East or anywhere else you care to mention because it wasn’t financially worth while.

That’s not the point though and neither is it that they shouldn’t be surprised about the extra red tape and planning now needed. I remember reading articles raising these concerns long before the final agreement was reached. Obviously it’s not something the government were particularly concerned about.

While you accuse remainers of being desperate to find bad news and like to keep up your smug commentary about the lack of queues at Dover you seem incapable of acknowledging that not all is sweetness and light and that real people’s lives are affected.

You obviously don’t give a shit about any of the short term negative consequences for anyone.

Now now - calm down

You are wrong in your final comments - I have acknowledged - a long time ago and consistently - that there will be teething difficulties. And, I have acknowledged - post 31/12/20 - that there have been some teething difficulties - but the point I am making is......

These issues do not amount to anything resembling the situation that Remainers have been insisting will be the case.

The bottom line - that you and others are simply refusing to accept - is:

That the the situation is not remotely as disruptive as so many Remainers were saying would be the case and some, just IMO, have been hoping would be the case

It is the (some) Remainers that are avoiding the truth of January 2021 - not Leavers

 

[Ban-jani]

Hannan is an drooling moron. He wrote a piece the other day stating what Britain needed to do was reduce barriers to trade...

...I’m like, what the fuck?

Libertarians are just fascists who haven’t come out of the closet. Stick that on your graph.

You’re a complete idiot if you believe the at last bit.

It’s absolutely wrong on all levels.

It’s like saying liberals like you are communists who haven’t come out of the closet.

Free trade has absolutely nothing to do with fascism.

Considering how much time some of you spend in this sub forum , there’s a lot of uneducated people.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

You could do a Brexit poll and ban everyone who voted Remain from the pro-Brexit thread and everyone who voted Leave from the anti-Brexit thread.

Then they couldn't even see each others posts.

Not everyone who voted Remain wants to oppose and argue against anything that looks good for Leaving.

 

[Ban-jani]

Because you're not reading it correctly.

Hitler is at the top because he was more 'authoritarian', thus he is more authoritarian than Johnson.

The closer you are to the centre line, the more "centrist" your values are. Johnson is Libertarian Right, Hitler was Authoritarian Right. The graph displays exactly that. For those hard of listening Right Wing views and policies does not automatically equal evil. You can be Authoritarian Left and be a complete bastard.

I despair mate.

I really do.

Never take any shit off Bob again, whatever you do.

The lack of knowledge is astounding.

 

[hilts]

You’re so unbelievably naive when it comes to political ideologies mate, and I’m going to try and help you.

Hannan is a Libertarian, as Rascal says, he’s a free market classic liberal in many respects and that’s a completely different ideology.

You seem to struggle with the differences on the right and how libertarianism/neoliberalism, is different to the far right. It’s generally an economic position, based on freedom, that is totally not the same as the authoritarian right.

That is absolutely on the opposite end of the right wing compass to fascism.

The below might not be completely accurate but Hannan is very much in the purple and fascism is near Hitler in blue.

He’s totally at odds with fascism.

View attachment 7833

Always liked Jock Stein but John Lenin did turn into a bit of a **** when he left the Beatles.

 

[domalino]

It isn’t, it’s put him economically more right wing, not more authoritarian right

You should label your axis.

 

[Metal Biker]

Hannan is an drooling moron. He wrote a piece the other day stating what Britain needed to do was reduce barriers to trade...

...I’m like, what the fuck?

Libertarians are just fascists who haven’t come out of the closet. Stick that on your graph.

The most ignorant and incorrect viewpoint you'll see today.

Libertarians want political freedoms and smaller government control, facsists want total government control and freedoms restricted. Libertarianism and Fascism are at the opposite ends of the spectrum as you can get.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

As much as I despise the man I'm a little bit skeptical of any graph that puts Boris Johnson more right wing than Hitler.

I think the Johnson there is Gary Johnson, an American Libertarian.

That's not to say that Johnson or the current Conservative party isn't put somewhere close to the edge of right on other compasses.

 

[domalino]

Not everyone who voted Remain wants to oppose and argue against anything that looks good for Leaving.

Neither I nor @Ric was being serious with the suggestion. Seemed obvious but perhaps I forgot what thread I was in.