Post Match Thread: Election 2017

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The hypocrisy of Labour and Alistair Campbell is beyond contempt . Apparently, the Tories are playing with fire with the peace process in Norn Ireland by partnering with the DUP. If that's the case, how precisely would electing an IRA sympathiser as PM have helped the peace process?
 
I am surprised the Tories want to go into an alliance with the DUP as it is only going to make them more unpopular. I would have thought it better to try to govern with a minority. If their Queen's speech wasn't accepted, they could then let Corbyn have a go at trying to cobble something together, safe in the knowledge that they probably have enough seats to block any of his proposals that they considered too extreme.

Whoever forms the Brexit government is probably going to become quite unpopular anyway I would imagine. Perhaps not the best time to be in government.

I'm sure there must be some flaw to my thinking though.
 
Well if you had looked at the graphic I posted you would find the answer. Clue, big red arrow, big swing to labour, small one, small wing, and vice versa.

That was why I posted it, and it takes every seat into consideration ignoring other parties, and without saying who won the seat.

Yes, I realise that of course. I was wondering what the actual figures are. I can search for them I suppose but I was just wondering if you knew, that was all.

But never mind, it's not something I am desperate to understand. Thanks for posting the graphic.
 
The hypocrisy of Labour and Alistair Campbell is beyond contempt . Apparently, the Tories are playing with fire with the peace process in Norn Ireland by partnering with the DUP. If that's the case, how precisely would electing an IRA sympathiser as PM have helped the peace process?

An IRA sympathiser that also entered into negotiations with the UVF, and almost certainly the UDA and was reported to have had many chats with Reverend Ian Paisley when the DUP were forming the Ulster Resistance, invading Clontibret and waving firearms certificates up the mountains?
Don't believe everything you read in the MSM.
 
Labour aren't currently in Government because, in descending order:

The Tories managed to make the terrorist sympathiser label stick.

The Garden Tax was badly communicated.

People didn't like or trust his policy on nuclear weapons or the military.

John McDonnell has made some very scary comments for a Chancellor to be.

Diane Abbott exists and went all Diane Abbott about things.

Not sure where you would add "people didn't trust Labour's promises and figures: they didn't trust the numbers"? Maybe you meant that as part of the John McDonnell bullet point?

Lots of people I talked to liked the Labour manifesto in principle but just didn't think it was credible that they could do what they were saying by only charging 5% of the population any extra.

From my perspective, McDonnell either failed to understand, or more likely failed to own up to the fact that "fully costed" does not equal sensible, nor deliverable.

I can fully cost how I can own a new Ferrari by taking on a double-glazing sales job and having a 50% success rate, i.e. selling to 1 in 2 of the doors I knock on. It's a fully costed model, but it's not achievable.
 
I am surprised the Tories want to go into an alliance with the DUP as it is only going to make them more unpopular. I would have thought it better to try to govern with a minority. If their Queen's speech wasn't accepted, they could then let Corbyn have a go at trying to cobble something together, safe in the knowledge that they probably have enough seats to block any of his proposals that they considered too extreme.

Whoever forms the Brexit government is probably going to become quite unpopular anyway I would imagine. Perhaps not the best time to be in government.

I'm sure there must be some flaw to my thinking though.
You make good points.
 
The hypocrisy of Labour and Alistair Campbell is beyond contempt . Apparently, the Tories are playing with fire with the peace process in Norn Ireland by partnering with the DUP. If that's the case, how precisely would electing an IRA sympathiser as PM have helped the peace process?

That is some serious straw clutching.
 
Is this going to completely put everyone's noses out of joint and put the good Friday agreement in jeopardy ?

I think I'm worried about this.
 
From the late 70s Thatcher moved the political conversation to the right. Blair positioned himself as a centrist but he was still way to the right of any previous Labour leader. Thatcher acknowleged this. The Tories have moved even further to the right under pressure from Ukip.

All Corbyn is doing is trying to move the conversation back to something less austere and extreme.

Don't think the public want another dose of centre right Labouism.
 
If Labour were to firm a Government, thetes a good chance we'd get a 2nd referendum.

Corbyn accepts the result but the Party itself never has.

I think Remain would probably win too

A 2nd referendum will see splits in our nation that might never recover and parties like UKIP really taking center stage.

We voted to leave in a referendum every party supported and its time they got on with the job they have been asked to do.
 
If Labour were to firm a Government, thetes a good chance we'd get a 2nd referendum.

Corbyn accepts the result but the Party itself never has.

I think Remain would probably win too
Unfortunately this would cause apoplectic rage in a good many.
Think the best outcome is to say look you got your wish we are out but to hand the negotiations over to politicians who wanted to remain. Well not May obviously!
 
If Labour were to firm a Government, thetes a good chance we'd get a 2nd referendum.

Corbyn accepts the result but the Party itself never has.

I think Remain would probably win too

I wouldn't be against that in the slightest.

But there are lots of labour Brexit supporters that wouldn't forgive them for doing so.
 
From the late 70s Thatcher moved the political conversation to the right. Blair positioned himself as a centrist but he was still way to the right of any previous Labour leader. Thatcher acknowleged this. The Tories have moved even further to the right under pressure from Ukip.

All Corbyn is doing is trying to move the conversation back to something less austere and extreme.

Don't think the public want another dose of centre right Labouism.
People as individuals know what they want, they just find it difficult to find a party that matches up to everything they want. But the electorate as a whole I dont think has any idea what it wants we're all over the place. IMO our system is no longer fit for purpose when it comes to forming a government, it's getting harder and harder to produce a definitive result.
 
I agree with that, and you can go back and see how furious I was at the PLP for undermining Corbyn. Because it meant less chance of a Labour Government. And I want a Labour Government because without one nobody gets helped.

This isn't rocket science. I want New Labour because it's the most electable version of Labour and every time they've moved away from it they've lost the election.

Everybody is talking about the bright new socialist future, but if you actually ask them what seats they are going to turn that are traditionally Blue there's not many there. They can't get to 326. And if they can't then they may as well run on a platform of a free Angelina Jolie for every teenage boy bevause they can't get into power.

In Opposition, Labour can do 0% good and only prevent the Government from doing bad.

In Government, even if they can only do 20% good, and try to do very little bad.

20% is better than 0%.

It's political greed to refuse to be pragmatic.

I don't share your objectives mate, but I have shared your analysis over the past pages.

Had Labour been more moderate, they would be in power now I think. Corbyn is like chilli sauce - brilliant if you're a chilli lover, and perhaps even people who don't care for chilli might like to try a bit to brighten up a dull meal. They do not want xxx arse reamer fire dragon splurged all over the plate though. The chilli lovers think that's marvellous, can't get enough if it. It's put other people off.

Just as one tiny example, all the re-nationalisation of the utilities crap, at HUGE cost and for little or no real good reason. What a complete ideological waste of time, effort and money. No-one with a vaguely moderate outlook, wants that.
 
If Labour were to firm a Government, thetes a good chance we'd get a 2nd referendum.

Corbyn accepts the result but the Party itself never has.

I think Remain would probably win too

They passed A50 through parliament and have stated no freedom of movement. They did not fight the election on Brexit because thanks to Gina it's a done deal which is why they picked up so many UKIP votes.
 
If Labour were to firm a Government, thetes a good chance we'd get a 2nd referendum.

Corbyn accepts the result but the Party itself never has.

I think Remain would probably win too

Cannot see any party being that stupid, especially the labour party while on an upward trajectory.

A lot are fed up with constant elections and voting, another referendum would piss off the public and anyone calling it would be onto a loser.
 
Gideon on marr loving mays predicament, toby young is a twat though.

Toby Young.a Twat?

Oh no, when since? He has never seemed a sanctimonious little twat up til now.

First Phil back from the dead dying again.

Hammond and now this.

It's been almost too much to take in.
 
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