Running thread

Tommy_Catons_Perm said:
I think I ve said it before on here. I think there is no need for gels or food in training up to two hours and racing up to half marathon distance.....assuming HM done at least around the 90 minutes mark. You may need water in training over an hour ......if it's warm....sometimes I carry a bottle with a handle if going on very long trail runs. Train your body to run without the need for food. And I stick to foods like porridge, nuts and banannas and drinks like water, milk, tea or coffee.

Forget the gels and sports drinks .....apart from the second haf of the marathon or post 20 miles when things start to get desperate!!
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I would have to respectfully disagree with your latter points.

I do agree that there's little need for fuel during training runs, although the evidence in favour of fasted training does now appear to be getting debunked.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of aerobic exercise performed in fasted v. fed state on fat and carbohydrate metabolism in adults: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PubMed

This study aimed to verify the effect of aerobic exercise performed in the fasted v. fed states on fat and carbohydrate metabolism in adults. Searches were conducted in March 2015, and updated in July 2016, using PubMed®, Scopus and Cochrane databases (terms: 'fasting', 'exercise', 'aerobic...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
www.mdpi.com

Effect of Overnight Fasted Exercise on Weight Loss and Body Composition: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

It remains unclear whether training in fasted compared to fed states leads to greater weight loss and whether this practice results in beneficial or detrimental changes in body composition. We conducted a systematic review to examine the effect of overnight-fasted versus fed exercise on weight...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com

Also, there doesn't seem to be much evidence in favour of training your body to run without food, and indeed, I've recently read evidence suggesting that training with gels/food will mean that your body can be trained to make better use of the fuel on race day.

Also, if you wait to take on your fuel during the second half of a marathon (or, indeed, after 20 miles), then it's too late to have much impact! Firstly because it takes time for the fuel that you consume to actually translate into energy. Secondly, the idea of fuelling during a marathon is to push back the wall: fuelling from the start means you can top up your carbs so that you are using them as fuel throughout the race, meaning less reliance on stored fat throughout. During these runs, about 25% of fuel will come from stored fat but you can reduce the amount of fuel consumed during carb-loading by consuming fuel throughout so that the stored energy is still there and available later in the race.
 
Stuuuuuu said:
I would have to respectfully disagree with your latter points.

I do agree that there's little need for fuel during training runs, although the evidence in favour of fasted training does now appear to be getting debunked.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effects of aerobic exercise performed in fasted v. fed state on fat and carbohydrate metabolism in adults: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PubMed

This study aimed to verify the effect of aerobic exercise performed in the fasted v. fed states on fat and carbohydrate metabolism in adults. Searches were conducted in March 2015, and updated in July 2016, using PubMed®, Scopus and Cochrane databases (terms: 'fasting', 'exercise', 'aerobic...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
www.mdpi.com

Effect of Overnight Fasted Exercise on Weight Loss and Body Composition: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis

It remains unclear whether training in fasted compared to fed states leads to greater weight loss and whether this practice results in beneficial or detrimental changes in body composition. We conducted a systematic review to examine the effect of overnight-fasted versus fed exercise on weight...
www.mdpi.com www.mdpi.com

Also, there doesn't seem to be much evidence in favour of training your body to run without food, and indeed, I've recently read evidence suggesting that training with gels/food will mean that your body can be trained to make better use of the fuel on race day.

Also, if you wait to take on your fuel during the second half of a marathon (or, indeed, after 20 miles), then it's too late to have much impact! Firstly because it takes time for the fuel that you consume to actually translate into energy. Secondly, the idea of fuelling during a marathon is to push back the wall: fuelling from the start means you can top up your carbs so that you are using them as fuel throughout the race, meaning less reliance on stored fat throughout. During these runs, about 25% of fuel will come from stored fat but you can reduce the amount of fuel consumed during carb-loading by consuming fuel throughout so that the stored energy is still there and available later in the race.
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You make some fairly detailed and reasonable points. Whilst my comment about using gels in a marathon is rather glib, it is based on experience and what worked for me. I only ran 5 marathons, two of which I would describe as successful and the other three unsuccessful.

The "successful" marathons were completed within my target times of 3.15, at even pace, with a slightly positive split (1.35 first HM, 1.37 second HM). I only used gels post 20 miles. Taking gels at any time, or not at all may not have affected the time- even pace throughout. I felt good throughout the race. I barely used gels or food during training.

In two of the "unsuccessful" marathons I hit the wall at 20 miles despite taking gels early and in training. The gels in the race made me feel sick. The last six miles were much slower ( 9 minute v 7 minute mailing). Other detrimental factors occurred though - hot weather.

I would advise anyone running a marathon to take more qualified advice than mine (hence the Hal higden link). More importantly experiment and find out what works for you an individual with fuelling.

Your links are too late for me - I will do no more marathons. We live and learn.
 
Totally take your point about personal experience, e.g. if taking gels makes you feel sick, then that isn't going to help your race. This is why it's so important to practise fuelling strategies in training.

For me, many gels do indeed make me feel sick or give me dodgy guts, so I've experimented with different things over the years and found that alternating between different foods works well. I have found one gel that doesn't appear to have any significant side effects for me: KMC NRG (the Kendal Mint Cake gels). I now alternate these with about 45g of chopped dates, KMC bar (half at a time) and I also drink Lucozade Sport. Between the four products, I manage to get the required carbs without feeling unwell.

I just think we have to be careful when using our own experience to advise others. It's pretty well-documented that fuelling from the start is objectively the best way to avoid hitting the wall (apart from the actual training, tapering and carb-loading of course!) but like we've both said, how to achieve that requires some practise and a tailored strategy.
 
I’ll have a good read of those links bit good advice.
Decided with a mate to train for a marathon after both doing halves in a whim.
I sometimes get every drops and find ot bars/flapjacks work well for me.
A mate has just made some mint cakes as it happens so I’ll trial a few things (lukozade has been mentioned a few times).
Worth getting a fuel vest for drinks & snacks?
 
somapop said:
I’ll have a good read of those links bit good advice.
Decided with a mate to train for a marathon after both doing halves in a whim.
I sometimes get every drops and find ot bars/flapjacks work well for me.
A mate has just made some mint cakes as it happens so I’ll trial a few things (lukozade has been mentioned a few times).
Worth getting a fuel vest for drinks & snacks?
Click to expand...

Be wary of too much lucozade and accidents could happen.
 
Man_City_Loyal said:
Be wary of too much lucozade and accidents could happen.
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There are some royal stories on that Run Bitch Run FB group....I'll never look at female runners the same way again!

Are we talking the isotonic lukozade btw? Was thinking of water, flapjacks and sweets mashed into one of those runners fuel vests - any recommendations?
 
somapop said:
There are some royal stories on that Run Bitch Run FB group....I'll never look at female runners the same way again!

Are we talking the isotonic lukozade btw? Was thinking of water, flapjacks and sweets mashed into one of those runners fuel vests - any recommendations?
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is that an open group?

I generally just have a black tea 30-40 mins before i go for a run. Hate eating before.

If i could sleep at a reasonable time i would go early morning running
 
Just send a request to join on FB (the best thing on FB for me).
It's ace. A real eye opener....amongst other things!
 
somapop said:
There are some royal stories on that Run Bitch Run FB group....I'll never look at female runners the same way again!

Are we talking the isotonic lukozade btw? Was thinking of water, flapjacks and sweets mashed into one of those runners fuel vests - any recommendations?
Click to expand...
Girl on the stockport 10 last year had shit herself but I wasn’t sure she knew, kept putting her hand back and wiping her buttocks, wasn’t going to tell her as I went past!! Seen a lad at the end of the Manchester marathon in 2018 in white shorts who’d done it also... “shudders”
 
inchy14 said:
Girl on the stockport 10 last year had shit herself but I wasn’t sure she knew, kept putting her hand back and wiping her buttocks, wasn’t going to tell her as I went past!! Seen a lad at the end of the Manchester marathon in 2018 in white shorts who’d done it also... “shudders”
Click to expand...
See what I mean about those gels.....

More seriously though advice I am giving on here is based on personal experience and should not be taken as fact. Obvious I suppose but worth reiterating based on the preceding discussions.

There is never full agreement on sport training and competing. We should know...plenty of people here know more about football than Pep Guardiola following a City defeat!
 
inchy14 said:
Girl on the stockport 10 last year had shit herself but I wasn’t sure she knew, kept putting her hand back and wiping her buttocks, wasn’t going to tell her as I went past!! Seen a lad at the end of the Manchester marathon in 2018 in white shorts who’d done it also... “shudders”
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Too many gels can certainly cause that, especially if you are not used to them.

Far too many people don't practice their fuelling strategies before a big race and end up suffering as a result.
 
hi all, does anyone have any sugestions for dealing with plantar faciitis?

been running lots, both on road (5/10/20k) and doing intrval fitness sessions on grass pitches during covid and have developed pains on the soles of both of my feet that in the last 8 weeks or so. the pain exists when i start running and after i've finished but generally dissapates for the majority of a run. although the pain is quite severe in the mornings and after sitting down for extended periods.

i've read up about some stretching exercises, bought myself some massage balls but neither having much of an impact.

does anyone have any tried and tested solutions they could send my way?

cheers!
 
inchy14 said:
Girl on the stockport 10 last year had shit herself but I wasn’t sure she knew, kept putting her hand back and wiping her buttocks, wasn’t going to tell her as I went past!! Seen a lad at the end of the Manchester marathon in 2018 in white shorts who’d done it also... “shudders”
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Oh gawd, poor lass.
Do females have more tender colons than men? There are myriad ‘wild shitting’ tales on that group.

One of my concerns tbh...
 
Practice fuelling in training and in shorter races to find what works for you.

Diet, training, cross training, tapering, carbo loading, eating and drinking during races are all part of the marathon game.

Read books or on line or join a club for expert advice depending how serious you want to take it.

Its not as brain dead and boring as non runners might imagine.
 
Tommy_Catons_Perm said:
Practice fuelling in training and in shorter races to find what works for you.

Diet, training, cross training, tapering, carbo loading, eating and drinking during races are all part of the marathon game.

Read books or on line or join a club for expert advice depending how serious you want to take it.

Its not as brain dead and boring as non runners might imagine.
Click to expand...
Thanks mate.
Sage advice there
I’ll update on here...
 
Anyone able to advise on why my heart rate jumps really high as soon as I start running up to mid 160’s and then after 1/2ks suddenly drops down to 130ish in an instant. Does it pretty much every time I run. Attached a pic of my heart rate chart of my last run. Is it normal for it be like that? 92A2E525-AD34-468C-BFA8-B867679193DE.jpeg
 
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