Sam Allardyce: Epitome of why English football has lagged behind

[SpiritofBurnden]

You mean you can only polish a turd so much? Surprising they've never all got on with their careers a a higher level thanks to his coaching.

Tal Ben Haim, Eidur Gudjohnson, Nicolas Anelka.

All signed by Chelsea.

I'm flattered you think that Chelsea doesn't represent a higher level than Bolton.

 

[SpiritofBurnden]

His tactics are simple, get the keeper to boot it up to the big centre foward who heads it down to a runner who knocks it out for a throw in.

Yet only seven other teams did better than the one he managed last season...

You'd have thought their managers would have managed to suss out his tactics if you have.

 

[SpiritofBurnden]

You're aware of the squad Bolton had right?

Yes it included Kevin Nolan and Ricardo Vaz Te, two of the players who were dismissed as not having improved under Allardyce, earlier in this thread... by you!

"None of them were better players for having worked under him, none learned anything new."

 

[inchy14]

It's an achievement for a team to stay up when they're expected to go down isn't it?

Everton or WHU shouldn’t be going down anyway and I doubted either would have under Allardyce or anyone else.

Yep. Fair dues to him for Sunderland. Bolton ran themselves into debt though and went down and I doubt anyone ever expected Everton, West Ham and Newcastle to go down.

Exactly. As someone pointed earlier, he doesn’t improve any players, the majority of fans can’t wait to see the back of him.
Him, Warnock, Pullis, they should all fuck off and let young up and coming coaches have a go but they’ve all friends in the media who push for them to be given a go instead.

 

[mac]

Simply not true

I agree you need to add a Nolan or Carroll up front to smash your fuckin teeth in. ;)

 

[inchy14]

You're aware that Bolton finished in a UEFA Cup place in his final season right?

They were in contention for a Champions League place with about four games to play.

To do that whilst lowering the level of the players must take some doing.

Burnley just qualified for the UEFA cup and weren’t a million miles away from CL qualifying around Xmas time, playing the most boring negativite football known to man, Christ they finished with a negative goal difference, so not sure it’s much to shout about.
And again the point still being missed, he’s telling a multiple trophy winning manager how to do his job!!
Emery will have been thinking “Sam who?”

 

[BlueHammer85]

Everton or WHU shouldn’t be going down anyway and I doubted either would have under Allardyce or anyone else.

Exactly. As someone pointed earlier, he doesn’t improve any players, the majority of fans can’t wait to see the back of him.
Him, Warnock, Pullis, they should all fuck off and let young up and coming coaches have a go but they’ve all friends in the media who push for them to be given a go instead.

Yeh. Someone like Di Canio, or Bilic, Remi Garde, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer, Pepe Mel, Rene Meulensteen, Roberto Martinez, Frank De Boer, Gary Neville,Terry Connor.
There just not given a chance.

 

[aguero93:20]

Yes it included Kevin Nolan and Ricardo Vaz Te, two of the players who were dismissed as not having improved under Allardyce, earlier in this thread... by you!

"None of them were better players for having worked under him, none learned anything new."

What amazing feats did they go on to after? Newcastle had their best season in the last 20 years when they got rid of Nolan.

 

[aguero93:20]

Yeh. Someone like Di Canio, or Bilic, Remi Garde, Ole Gunnar Solksjaer, Pepe Mel, Rene Meulensteen, Roberto Martinez, Frank De Boer, Gary Neville,Terry Connor.
There just not given a chance.

When did Allardici improve any of the above?

 

[mccity]

Yep well said.

I found it at West Ham, no matter the football being played some fans just have an irrational hatred of him personally - this affects their judgement, so in the end they could never be ‘entertained’ ... swap the same man with an Italian and fancy name and their outlook on the match would be totally different. Many times under Allardyce we played very good football.

It happens. Both ways as you say. Listen to anyone talk about Sterling during the world cup and then listen to them talk about Lingard. Try having a conversation with people comparing Klopp and Mourinho. Heck, watch the Arsenal-City game, and then go read both the Gundogan and then the Bernardo Silva threads on here. If you ever really want to see a load of stubborn debate then go and brave the Corbyn thread.

As I pointed out in the Media Persecution of Raheem Sterling thread. People latch onto an idea and rather than let themselves be opened up they double down. And in a world where social media is rife, the hive-mind, positive feedback loop (or circlejerk as the kids say) is rampant. I'm not sure the terminology's right but the trope very quickly become established, and in this case Sammy Allardycio is a stain on football. Confirmation bias will do the rest.

There's also a rather disappointing whiff of snobbery about this. Like I said, there's not one way to go about it. In fact, football would be fucking boring if everyone sang from the same hymn sheet. Some people play attacking football, and some people play defensive. Some play attractive football, some play less so. Some play with next season in mind, some play with the next 90 minutes in mind. Not every team can afford to plan two years ahead without the risk of relegation.

And then take into account that as has been said different managers work best at different levels. Allardyce knows what it takes to scrap enough points to survive, and often comfortably so. That's been mocked of course, but again that's a bit snobby isn't it. But the fact he's never been relegated, saving his respective clubs potentially hundreds of millions in the long term each time can't be a coincidence. In fact I can confidently say it isn't. But then again I strongly doubt he could effectively manage a modern top 6 side. (the fact he's never managed at the highest level is probably what led to him making these comments in the first place. He's not had to plan beyond a season for the last decade) And I doubt Pep could truly work with West Ham for example, it's been shown he needs a certain calibre of player to thrive and West Ham lack that. If you want to see Pep based football at a weaker club then go watch the mental clusterfuck that is NYCFC, a team that plays beautiful football but is at perennial risk of shooting itself in the foot. Different managers, different levels.

I'll be honest, I've not enjoyed watching a Sam Allardyce team play much beyond 2006. But I've enjoyed plenty of matches involving his sides if you catch my drift?

Anyway, we have to admit he is a bit outdated (there's a very legitimate reason stemming back to the 2005 offside rule change for this). And modern demands for aestheticism is only exacerbating the issue. Plus, football would be so much nicer on the eye if the ball stayed on the ground more than it wasn't. Having fewer Allardyce's would help with that.

But he's here, and we shouldn't be ostracising him for daring to be different, even if it is as a result of the rest of world progressing as he stands still. But funnily enough, as an analogy, KDB works at his best when he plays for City standing still whilst everyone else on the pitch moves around, so maybe there's a optimistic lesson to be extrapolated from here. As the world moves away from the old-school, the old way of playing becomes more unique and harder to deal with as nobody ever prepares for it. As if it's got space to exist all of a sudden. I'm just trying to put a spin on it here admittedly.

And once again, the way he's being laughed at and disparaged is so disappointing. It's the same with Cech, people forget what he once was. He's been busting his arse off for 20 years and people are talking about him like he's a combination of Glenn Roeder and Jacob Rees-Mogg. Even if he's past it there are so many less dickish ways to make the point.

Ultimately, he's not doing anything wrong. And as he becomes outdated he becomes a variable which makes his games interesting again. As long as he doesn't encourage harming other players I couldn't care less how he does it. And if it really is his short term thinking that's killing football, then maybe instead of blaming him we should be asking what exactly is going wrong with football (the answer is the immense amount of money on offer for PL teams and PL teams alone btw) that's leading to the short term games. It's easy to point to a symptom but it takes insight to probe for a source. If Allardyce is really a stain, which I don't believe he is then it's time to start looking upstairs.