The Labour Government

Tax is a necessary evil. No one likes paying it, but exists to try and make society a little fairier. To correct the imbalances that accrue over time for the common good.
That's clearly your personal view, but not an agreed definition. If you assume your view then some of what you say makes sense. But that view underpinning of your argument is on shaky ground. Another view is that its prime objective is to fund public services.
 
Why are you so offensive all the time?

I did come back to you about the car less bit. I told you that I did not say rich people have all forgone car ownership. Not that any such explanation was needed because it was fucking obvious "the car they didn't buy" does not mean "they never bought any car, ever".

And as to the sxi and Blackpool bit? No idea what you are talking about, did you write it? If so, somewhat - like hugely - ironic that you can use exaggeration to illustrate a point, but apparently I cannot under your rules.

What a stupid post. I didn't say these people have no car and no holidays you utter muppet. Do you not get at all that people make choices in life in order to help their kids? Maybe that doesn't happen in your brain.

Oh dear, insulting you say:-)

I also said you didnt come back about the 10m people not about the cars, which I have explained, maybe you have forgotten already it was this morning:-) erm..... Read the post wrong or deflecting? I think we both know.

If you don't like insults stop giving them out old bean
 
Thank-you for the smiley at least.

Good point about Chippy Towers and the moat. Symptomatic of people just not being able to get their head around me sticking up for the better off/wealthy despite me not actually being wealthy.
The problem is you think 80k wages and half million pound plus houses are somewhat normal and I don't. So imho your definition of wealthy is out of whack with mine.

You may be wealthy and if so good luck to you.
 
I get the sliding doors comment. Thats a HUGE part of life but i also think sliding doors IS life , its just how it os and isnt down to luck as such
Me and my wife both had dates on the night of our first date but cancelled them then met . 15 years and 2 kids later ..

But I'm not sure most successes in life can be just put down to luck.
I was thinking of the lads i know who wre successful and have a few quid and for most of them its through pure graft. One example is a lad with a big removal company and he started out just him and a tranny van. The others are the same , they grafter their bollocks off.

Im self emp and do ok but through CHOICE i keep my business at the level it is as i dont want the stress that comes with expanding.
So if i did expand (which i could), became successful, is that down to luck or choice?

Ps you put your side of the debate down very well, me not so much, so be gentle

I think those are valid points and I did say 'most' rather than all people with money because I have met a couple of exceptional people in my time who if luck was a part of it, it wasn't the greater part. Obviously I can't comment about your mates but what I would say is some of the biggest grafters I have known are far from weathly so it isn't simply a function of hard work.

Don't get me wrong I run a small business myself and am naturally inclined to favour the sector especially where people have a go at creating decent quality jobs and some wealth for others as well as bettering themselves. Even there though, I was doing a piece of work a few years back that was about the supposed "long tail" of low productivity in UK SMEs and I had to research a load of extant and defunct SME's and what struck me was the dividing line between success and failure was very narrow and pretty random. I think sheer bloody mindedness and resilience is important but then that as a characteristic is most often down to a combination of nurture as well as a bit of nature, so how much is it really meritorious?

Your point about the stress levels in growing a business is very interesting though, I'm of the view that people who take real risks (with their own lives and money, not others) should get a break because it's ultimately how we move things forward. Unfortunately things like R&D tax credits turned into a complete piss take with accountants seeing it as a great wheeze to be exploited.

Anyway, my much bigger issue is that once people have 'made it' to some degree it then it becomes about the exploitatiom of their capital which is self-perpetuating, and absolutely nothing to do with merit. Moreover the trends for how this is achieved have since the 1980s simply created greater inequality. In the system we live in 'investment' is positioned as something good that powers our economy by people taking risks; all I can say is I've stood in front of multiple different types of investors for both my own and other companies and the number of them who give a shit about powering the economy or driving meaningful value in society at risk to themselves is vanishingly small.
 
Oh dear, insulting you say:-)

I also said you didnt come back about the 10m people not about the cars, which I have explained, maybe you have forgotten already it was this morning:-) erm..... Read the post wrong or deflecting? I think we both know.

If you don't like insults stop giving them out old bean
"You total muppet" is a friendly dig mate. It's not exactly calling you a ****, is it. And really the 10m comment, do I have to justify every syllable? Do you not realise how ironic it is that you yourself say you use exaggeration to make a point, and then pick me up on a throw-away line about 5m or 10m people? It just makes you look silly, IMO.
 
The problem is you think 80k wages and half million pound plus houses are somewhat normal and I don't. So imho your definition of wealthy is out of whack with mine.

You may be wealthy and if so good luck to you.
Deary me. I didn't say it was "normal", i gave you the stats to show it's not uncommon. As I said, 12% of the population earn more than £80k per year as of 2022, and it's therefore higher than that today. £80k is not so much these days. I know plumbers who probably make near that amount. The last plumber who came to my house and did a totally shit job btw - drove an Aston Martin!

And a large number of people own a house worth £500k+.

These financial figures are not "opinions" they are facts.
 

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