The Labour Government

Churchlawtonblue said:
It's completely futile nailing the UK and the EU economy to the green mast while the Chinese and Indians are still rapidly expanding coal fired electricity production. We are just pissing in the sea trying to affect global change.
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You do what you can. It doesn't matter what others are doing so your statement is an immature way of thinking.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Increased levels of CO2 emissions every year, is moving away i would say.
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I think that’s fair, and I probably framed it clumsily - my point is that based on what I’ve read they have a plan and purpose in relation to renewables which India and African nations do not and that the long term trajectory is towards renewables in China.
 
Brewster's millions said:
Right, yeah.

Why would anyone be interested in Starmer breaking the law himself, and knowing that he had done so, when he later said that you can’t be a lawmaker and a lawbreaker, and when he also promised that he would step down if had broken the law?
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Ms Mellinger qualified for keyworker status and also wore a face mask during her visit to Labour headquarters on Christmas Eve in 2020, according to a book about the party's rise to power.

Meanwhile there was a party in Tory HQ.

I guess you must fancy yourself as the member for Barking.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think that’s fair, and I probably framed it clumsily - my point is that based on what I’ve read they have a plan and purpose in relation to renewables which India and African nations do not and that the long term trajectory is towards renewables in China.
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Too late by then, infact its too late now, they are increasing emissions and putting their short and medium GDP ahead of reducing climate change. My wider point is, their is no point in the UK or any other nation shacking ourselves to a green revolution, potentially reducing our economy and manufacturing when all we are doing is then buying the same goods made in a country on that has little or no env control is increasing emissions and then ships the goods from the other side of the world. Unless we do something about that imbalance we are effectively making things worse. I see no sign of the EU or UK doing anything about this.


Imports from China to the UK have gone up as our emissions have gone down and there's have gone up and continue to do so.

It's the same short sighted incredibly stupid idea that somehow we are helping the planet shutting down our blast furnaces when Tata are opening up new ones in India with finacial help from the UK government.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Too late by then, infact its too late now, they are increasing emissions and putting their short and medium GDP ahead of reducing climate change. My wider point is, their is no point in the UK or any other nation shacking ourselves to a green revolution, potentially reducing our economy and manufacturing when all we are doing is then buying the same goods made in a country on that has little or no env control is increasing emissions and then ships the goods from the other side of the world. Unless we do something about that imbalance we are effectively making things worse. I see no sign of the UK or the EU doing anything about this sadly.


Imports from China to the UK have gone up as our emissions have gone down and there's have gone up and continue to do so.
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So do you genuinely think every country should just burn as many fossil fuels as they can dig up?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think that’s fair, and I probably framed it clumsily - my point is that based on what I’ve read they have a plan and purpose in relation to renewables which India and African nations do not and that the long term trajectory is towards renewables in China.
Click to expand...
Too late by then, infact its too late now, they are increasing emissions and putting their short and medium GDP ahead of reducing climate change. My wider point is, their is no point in the UK or any other nation shacking ourselves to a green revolution, potentially reducing our economy and manufacturing when all we are doing is then buying the same goods made in a country on that has little or no env control is increasing emissions and then ships the goods from the other side of the world. Unless we do something about that imbalance we are effectively making things worse. I see no sign of


Imports from China to the UK have gone up as our emissions have gone down and there's have gone up and continue to do so.
hcblue95 said:
So do you genuinely think every country should just burn as many fossil fuels as they can dig up?
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Read my last post. Any UK green policy has to be part of a wider strategy. Involving controls and possibly tariffs on country's that are not reducing their emissions.
 
hcblue95 said:
So do you genuinely think every country should just burn as many fossil fuels as they can dig up?
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Silly statement, they shouldn't but it seems crazy that we in the (supposedly world-leading) UK should be taxing our own people to death and exporting jobs to fund change and 'green' projects while other MUCH bigger contributors to the problem carry on regardless don't you think?
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Increased levels of CO2 emissions every year, is moving away i would say.
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Quite a few experts have argued that China's emissions have peaked, or will do soon.

This link suggests they've already flattened out.

energyandcleanair.org

Analysis: Record surge of clean energy in 2024 halts China’s CO2 rise – Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air

energyandcleanair.org energyandcleanair.org

The argument that we shouldn't if they aren't I don't buy anyway. If we followed that, we'd rarely do anything positive, and enough countries seem to agree for it to at least be making some difference. Given that in a city like Manchester, net zero will also improve the health of our kids as they grow up, then I've got to disagree that we'll be left behind.
 
bluenova said:
Quite a few experts have argued that China's emissions have peaked, or will do soon.

This link suggests they've already flattened out.

energyandcleanair.org

Analysis: Record surge of clean energy in 2024 halts China’s CO2 rise – Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air

energyandcleanair.org energyandcleanair.org

The argument that we shouldn't if they aren't I don't buy anyway. If we followed that, we'd rarely do anything positive, and enough countries seem to agree for it to at least be making some difference. Given that in a city like Manchester, net zero will also improve the health of our kids as they grow up, then I've got to disagree that we'll be left behind.
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Pls read all of my posts on this before jumping to conclusions.
 
Really_here said:
Silly statement, they shouldn't but it seems crazy that we in the (supposedly world-leading) UK should be taxing our own people to death and exporting jobs to fund change and 'green' projects while other MUCH bigger contributors to the problem carry on regardless don't you think?
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.... not to forget the huge amount of pollutant we are adding to the worlds problem through the importing of all this cheap quality steel from India. Never mind, don't worry when we get a supportive Labour Government in power..... ahhhh... we have had one of those in Wales for over a quarter of a century, for a long time underpinned by a Labour Government in Westminster...

Never mind, carry on... as you were.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Too late by then, infact its too late now, they are increasing emissions and putting their short and medium GDP ahead of reducing climate change. My wider point is, their is no point in the UK or any other nation shacking ourselves to a green revolution, potentially reducing our economy and manufacturing when all we are doing is then buying the same goods made in a country on that has little or no env control is increasing emissions and then ships the goods from the other side of the world. Unless we do something about that imbalance we are effectively making things worse. I see no sign of


Imports from China to the UK have gone up as our emissions have gone down and there's have gone up and continue to do so.

Read my last post. Any UK green policy has to be part of a wider strategy. Involving controls and possibly tariffs on country's that are not reducing their emissions.
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If we want to tackle climate change then we have to do it as a whole. UK might be seen to be spearheading change, but unless the rest of the world follows, we are pissing in the wind.

The world needs to be serious about this, not individual countries
 
bluenova said:
I already had :)

The broader argument, seemed to be a bit of lipstick on top of the, "they're not doing it, so we can't", hence my reply (which also pointed out that in terms of China, it appears "they" are doing it).
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www.theguardian.com

China’s CO2 emissions have peaked or will in 2025, say 44% of experts in survey

Research reflects rising optimism about country’s green transition as it takes leading position on climate action
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

44% , what do you think the rest concluded?

They have an awful lot of work to do
to get anywhere near where the UK and the EU is. That's what it's folly to continue to outsource manufacturing to them without some sort of levy on imported goods.
 
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