The Tevez argument {merged - enough threads now }

[Blue Mooner]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

The biggest issue I reckon will be whether he does suffer from clinical depression, if he does he genuinely had a medical reason that would be supported by any court for refusing to play. I have worked with plenty of people and had family members with depression and not going to work is a very common theme. If as he claimed he was has depression I would think we won't have a leg to stand on would we? Could he counter claim that we knew this and putting him on the bench I'm Munich was a breach of duty of care ?

I genuinely wonder given his behaviour if he does have a genuine mental health issue or if he is just a not very intelligent narcissist?

Exactly, I think you are about the only person who has thought this through rationally, people are taking it as an insult to the club, football etc but if he does have mental issues and or reacted in the heat of the moment without considering the consequences
Of his actions then that has to be considered.

What happened to second chances, redemption, someone genuinelybeing sorry for their actions do you not deserve a second chance, all the other stuff we've heard has been press driven.

What would best Law and charlton have thought after a certain mr cantona karate kicked a fan? Did that not sully the name of a club like the rags? We need to get over it and not hype it up to more than it was a disagreement between player and managerm Had it been in the dressing room or before a match a la Scholes we would have been none the wiser.

I really don't care how 'retarded' other blues think I am insult me all you like I'm entitled to my view. The best solution is that the club still have the services of a 50 million pound player and retain his value.

 

[PistonBlue]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

For the good of football !!??...... Oh please ! For the good of every other club that isn't MCFC you mean. Football had changed LONG before this Tevez incident.

Was I p*ssed off at Tevez 'alleged' actions, yes

That said, who hasn't made mistakes in a fit of pique, who hasn't said something to a family member of friend in the heat of the moment and regretted it later !?

I think Mancini was just as guilty for the way he put it out into the public domain without thinking the situation through.... in the heat of the moment. Does that mean I'm anti Mancini, absolutely not.

In the cold light of day no one is blameless here, we need to grab a hold of our senses and realise that we could be losing a £50 million pound player and Tevez is not a player easily replaced even if you get the transfer fee you were looking for.

Clearly a way has to be found to resolve the situation so that Mancini retains absolute authority and Tevez is still able to play for us and it can be done.... just as the rags would do! Much as I despise them they would handle this situation without losing a quality player for nothing.

If they could sack him and sue him for his transfer value then fine, but the reality is this is just not a feasible option so a compromise has to be reached. The obvious one is that it was all a big misunderstanding and Carlo eeez very sorry and it won't happen again.

Then we can sell him in January/summer for full value and still get a world class player playing for us until then.

It was premeditated mate. He told us in July he wouldn't return to Manchester 'even on vacation'.

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13704323.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13704323.stm</a>

He's disrespected our club and our city more times than I can be bothered going into.

A player refuses to play and there is no way back, no way at all. And yes for the good of football we have to take a stand and sack him. Otherwise every player that gets tapped up by a 'bigger' will simply refuse to play if their club won't sell. Think Modric, or maybe Real taking a shine to Kun. MCFC have to stand firm. Even more so because it's MCFC, because we are possibly the only club in the world who could take afford to lose the transfer fee, should that be the case.

Also, our manager would have no option but to quit if Tevez were allowed to stay.

And what of the fans? I would find it extremely difficult to support a player who refused to play for us and is only there under duress. Actually, no I couldn't do it.

As far as I'm concerned I never want to see Tevez anywhere near our club again.

Sorry, missed this and is worth commenting on. Get your points mate but I think at times some City fans are just too precious, I don't care what the press published about Tevez, you can never tell truth from fiction so I only ever choose to believe what I hear coming from a players mouth, not from the written press.

As for not supporting the club because of a decision the club may make to give Tevez another chance, that's just OTT.

I was fuming on the night with Tevez called him all the names under the sun but having chance to think through the best outcome I've changed my mind.

What's acceptable about publicly saying you want to leave a club and even to your nearest rivals then the next day you double your wages and stay - did that undermine Fergie's authority is Ronney still banging them in for the rags.

Maybe that is what differs from City fans and rags fans I think they are more bothered about winning and we're principled. Well f*ck being principled I'm sick of City being the bridesmaid and never the bride. I want this club to be winners consistently like the rags. If that means sacking some principles well I'm prepared to bear it.

Tevez is still a critical part of the squad and I fear we would regret not having him as an option if any of our strikers hit a lean patch.

As for undermining Mancini it doesn't have to its how the solution is managed.

That said I support the 'club' not one player so if the club feel it is better to cast him aside then you have to back the clubs judgement, end of.

If you clicked the link you'd know it was a taped interview on Argentine TV (I think) where Tevez clearly speaks with his own mouth.

 

[hgblue]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

The biggest issue I reckon will be whether he does suffer from clinical depression, if he does he genuinely had a medical reason that would be supported by any court for refusing to play. I have worked with plenty of people and had family members with depression and not going to work is a very common theme. If as he claimed he was has depression I would think we won't have a leg to stand on would we? Could he counter claim that we knew this and putting him on the bench I'm Munich was a breach of duty of care ?

I genuinely wonder given his behaviour if he does have a genuine mental health issue or if he is just a not very intelligent narcissist?

Exactly, I think you are about the only person who has thought this through rationally, people are taking it as an insult to the club, football etc but if he does have mental issues and or reacted in the heat of the moment without considering the consequences
Of his actions then that has to be considered.

What happened to second chances, redemption, someone genuinelybeing sorry for their actions do you not deserve a second chance, all the other stuff we've heard has been press driven.

What would best Law and charlton have thought after a certain mr cantona karate kicked a fan? Did that not sully the name of a club like the rags? We need to get over it and not hype it up to more than it was a disagreement between player and managerm Had it been in the dressing room or before a match a la Scholes we would have been none the wiser.

I really don't care how 'retarded' other blues think I am insult me all you like I'm entitled to my view. The best solution is that the club still have the services of a 50 million pound player and retain his value.

If you have to be retarded to hold this point of view, then I have to say there's two retarded people on here. A lot has been made of the fact that Ferguson has supported Mancini's stance in all this, but I have to say he would do wouldn't he? He knows we're weaker without Tevez than with him. The greater good of football? Don't make me fucking laugh. All he cares about is seeing a rival weakened. What did Feguson do when faced with a similar act of insubordination? I believe Scholes STARTED the very next game. Bloody hypocrit.

 

[PistonBlue]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

The biggest issue I reckon will be whether he does suffer from clinical depression, if he does he genuinely had a medical reason that would be supported by any court for refusing to play. I have worked with plenty of people and had family members with depression and not going to work is a very common theme. If as he claimed he was has depression I would think we won't have a leg to stand on would we? Could he counter claim that we knew this and putting him on the bench I'm Munich was a breach of duty of care ?

I genuinely wonder given his behaviour if he does have a genuine mental health issue or if he is just a not very intelligent narcissist?

First it was a problem with Cook. Cook left.

Then it was because he wants to near his family. Family now with him in Cheshire.

Now he's got depression. So what do we do, put him on the happy pills?

What next, he's allergic to rain?

He just wants a move because he's due another signing on fee, get rid I say.<br /><br />-- Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:17 am --<br /><br />

The biggest issue I reckon will be whether he does suffer from clinical depression, if he does he genuinely had a medical reason that would be supported by any court for refusing to play. I have worked with plenty of people and had family members with depression and not going to work is a very common theme. If as he claimed he was has depression I would think we won't have a leg to stand on would we? Could he counter claim that we knew this and putting him on the bench I'm Munich was a breach of duty of care ?

I genuinely wonder given his behaviour if he does have a genuine mental health issue or if he is just a not very intelligent narcissist?

Exactly, I think you are about the only person who has thought this through rationally, people are taking it as an insult to the club, football etc but if he does have mental issues and or reacted in the heat of the moment without considering the consequences
Of his actions then that has to be considered.

What happened to second chances, redemption, someone genuinelybeing sorry for their actions do you not deserve a second chance, all the other stuff we've heard has been press driven.

What would best Law and charlton have thought after a certain mr cantona karate kicked a fan? Did that not sully the name of a club like the rags? We need to get over it and not hype it up to more than it was a disagreement between player and managerm Had it been in the dressing room or before a match a la Scholes we would have been none the wiser.

I really don't care how 'retarded' other blues think I am insult me all you like I'm entitled to my view. The best solution is that the club still have the services of a 50 million pound player and retain his value.

If you have to be retarded to hold this point of view, then I have to say there's two retarded people on here. A lot has been made of the fact that Ferguson has supported Mancini's stance in all this, but I have to say he would do wouldn't he? He knows we're weaker without Tevez than with him. The greater good of football? Don't make me fucking laugh. All he cares about is seeing a rival weakened. What did Feguson do when faced with a similar act of insubordination? I believe Scholes STARTED the very next game. Bloody hypocrit.

Why does everyone keep making comparisons with the rags? The Scholes situation we nothing at all like this one, nor the Rooney saga. Completely different.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

The incredible thing is, how he's managed to get through all these games, for West Ham, Utd, Argentina & City, without his 'clinical depression' ever showing up before.

Grow up.

 

[Scooby Blue]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

The biggest issue I reckon will be whether he does suffer from clinical depression, if he does he genuinely had a medical reason that would be supported by any court for refusing to play. I have worked with plenty of people and had family members with depression and not going to work is a very common theme. If as he claimed he was has depression I would think we won't have a leg to stand on would we? Could he counter claim that we knew this and putting him on the bench I'm Munich was a breach of duty of care ?

I genuinely wonder given his behaviour if he does have a genuine mental health issue or if he is just a not very intelligent narcissist?

Exactly, I think you are about the only person who has thought this through rationally, people are taking it as an insult to the club, football etc but if he does have mental issues and or reacted in the heat of the moment without considering the consequences
Of his actions then that has to be considered.

What happened to second chances, redemption, someone genuinelybeing sorry for their actions do you not deserve a second chance, all the other stuff we've heard has been press driven.

What would best Law and charlton have thought after a certain mr cantona karate kicked a fan? Did that not sully the name of a club like the rags? We need to get over it and not hype it up to more than it was a disagreement between player and managerm Had it been in the dressing room or before a match a la Scholes we would have been none the wiser.

I really don't care how 'retarded' other blues think I am insult me all you like I'm entitled to my view. The best solution is that the club still have the services of a 50 million pound player and retain his value.

^^This is all well + good...but you are missing an essential point here:
The bluemoon forum does not like to deal in shades of grey...when there is a clear black + white alternative.

In the "bluemoon" world:

i)The OJ Simpson trial was not in fact the "trial of the century".
Actually, the bluemoon foreman of the jury passed the judge a note at the end of the first morning's proceedings which read:
"...Can't we just wrap this up, and save everyone nine months of legal wrangling.He's obviously guilty...and we're all getting bored already."

ii) The film "Twelve Angry Men"** was abandoned at the post-production stage after an entire audience of bluemooners walked out of a test screening after just 5 minutes.
"It's obvious the kid's guilty...so how boring is the next hour + a half going to be"....was a common quote.

What we are allowed to speculate on is creative ways of treating Tevez:
e.g. a ritual dunking in Manchester Ship Canal.
If he drowns....he was telling the truth in only refusing to warm-up, but if he survives...it is living proof that he is possessed by the devil...and that he must face a "stoning by his peers" in Piccadilly Gardens.

**bluemoon - ruining Henry Fonda's acting career since 1957.

 

[persvenality cult]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

The biggest issue I reckon will be whether he does suffer from clinical depression, if he does he genuinely had a medical reason that would be supported by any court for refusing to play. I have worked with plenty of people and had family members with depression and not going to work is a very common theme. If as he claimed he was has depression I would think we won't have a leg to stand on would we? Could he counter claim that we knew this and putting him on the bench I'm Munich was a breach of duty of care ?

I genuinely wonder given his behaviour if he does have a genuine mental health issue or if he is just a not very intelligent narcissist?

The issue is a red herring. Depression is not an all encompassing get-out from fulfilling your contracted duty. If the doctor's say he's fit to play, fit to be part of the squad, then that's that. Kia and Carlos would not use this defence, it would raise more questions than it answered.

 

[bluelady47]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

IF he was suffering from depression why was he on the bench then, or did it come on all of a sudden !

 

[johnny crossan]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

Kia has alienated Sky now - their new 'independent' translation of the post match interview is very prejudicial for him.

 

[nobody can eat fifty eggs]

Re: The Tevez argument/Cheeseman {merged - enough threads now }

I think City have to be really careful here and back Mancini to the hilt. If they don't then does anyone think that our track record for manager turnover, that he may walk? I know it would be foolish for him to leave all that money behind but with his Latin temperament and pride I wouldn't put it past him.The way he will see it is that it's him or Tevez and he will be looking to the club for undoubted support. Most of the top sides in the world would have him as manager and he wouldn't be out of a job for long, and I reckon he won't be at City in another five years or so, he'll be back in Italy.