Toni Kroos

JoeMercer'sWay said:
yhp, received the ball 95 times tonight. And to sum up your Ozil point, 76 passes today, 46 were to either Hector, Kroos or Kimmich, passing it backwards constantly.
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To be fair to ozil, all of those passes could have been forwards as well, Kimmich and Hector were very keen to overlap.

But if agree he had a poor game. Doesn't seem to do that well for Germany these days, compared to the counter attacking Germany circa 2010.
 
JoeMercer'sWay said:
I think we clearly would have bought Pogba if Mino and co weren't money grabbers.

As for Kroos needing minding.

Last season:

Tackles Attempted: Fernandinho 165, Kroos 117, Pogba 100, Yaya 85 & Gundogan 69.
Tackles Completed: Fernandinho 105, Pogba 76, Kroos 64, Yaya 43 & Gundogan 37.
Tackle Completion %: Pogba 76, Fernandinho 64, Kroos 55, Gundogan 54 & Yaya 51.

Interceptions: Gundogan 57, Fernandinho 56, Pogba 47, Kroos 43, Yaya 25.
Clearances: Fernandinho 44, Yaya 35, Pogba 22, Gundogan 16, Kroos 11.
Blocks: Fernandinho 49, Pogba 49, Kroos 30, Yaya 20, Gundogan 17.

So Kroos gets stuck in although he isn't the best tackler, intercepts the ball nearly as much as the others, puts the blocks in as well and doesn't clear the ball, but that's because he can pass it.

Now for the good bit:
Passes completed: Kroos 2277, Gundogan 1776, Fernandinho 1636, Yaya 1589, Pogba 1417.
Pass Completion %: Kroos 94, Gundogan 88, Fernandinho 87, Yaya 86, Pogba 83.
Dispossessed: Kroos 28, Gundogan 51, Fernandinho 59, Yaya 73 & Pogba 178.
Dribbles Completed %: Yaya 78, Kroos 76, Gundogan 69, Fernandinho 67 & Pogba 61.
Shots on Target %: Pogba 31, Yaya 30, Gundogan 28, Kroos 20, Fernandinho 17.
Aerial Duel Win %: Pogba 65, Gundogan 50, Fernandinho 49, Yaya 49 & Kroos 42.

So if Pogba could use the ball like Kroos & wasn't a greedy bastard, then yeah he'd definitely be here. As that's not the case, I think Kroos is more than adept. Kroos is the facilitator that feeds the rest of the team endlessly, incredible stats really. Pogba's a more flamboyant and ambitious box to box kind of player, but much more erratic and inconsistent and at neither end of the pitch is he the huge chasms ahead of Kroos some say he is. Yes he dribbles 100 more times but he also loses the ball 150 more times and completes over 800 fewer passes.
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He will not be playing in a two man midfield in the Prem, like Yaya & Fern did.

If he does, vs anyone half decent, they will run through him like a truck.
 
johnmc said:
Is it because he spells his name like a girl. That irks me a tad as well
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At least we're not signing Toné.

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Neville Kneville said:
He will not be playing in a two man midfield in the Prem, like Yaya & Fern did.

If he does, vs anyone half decent, they will run through him like a truck.
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that's because he doesn't have a numpty for a manager, like Yaya and Fern did.

That being said, Yaya clearly couldn't be bothered to keep himself in shape, so a lot of it is his own doing.
 
domalino said:
You said Kroos wasn't playing as a 10, I showed you a Germany's official teamsheet showing he was. That's not a red herring mate.

Kroos average position is definitely ahead of Can's, even if can had touches further forward than Kroos got.

He's left of centre so he opens up to pass on his right foot, not because he was on the left of a 3 man midfield.
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Fucking lol.
 
domalino said:
You said Kroos wasn't playing as a 10, I showed you a Germany's official teamsheet showing he was. That's not a red herring mate.

Kroos average position is definitely ahead of Can's, even if can had touches further forward than Kroos got.

He's left of centre so he opens up to pass on his right foot, not because he was on the left of a 3 man midfield.
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Again, I don't know if you do this as a joke or you purposely like being obfuscatory. I said I didn't like numbers and I'd rather describe positions to avoid confusion. And then went ahead to do that. How that equates to saying he didn't play 10 beats me. But I'm sure you can explain.

Feel free to include the exact quotes of me saying he didn't play10
 
Dax777 said:
Yaya in his prime even without the goals was fantastic footballer.. And that Kroos is a fantastically sound technical footballer is not in question.

That he lacks Athletism, and puts in below average effort defensively to no complaints here, is what's at issue.

And your attempts to use one block as evidence he worked hard, when time after time on lots of the French attack he was the least aggressive of CM of the 3 on display and shied away from battle. Something Yaya gets slated for here constantly.

But feel free to Stoke the red herring argument. You have a knack for it.
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You say he is Yaya without the goals. Fair enough. But which Yaya? The one we saw the past two years? No way. The one we saw when we won the title? I would agree. He is Yaya from that season without the goals. That season Yaya was arguably the best player in the world so I would take Kroos if that is who you are comparing him to.
 
@domalino
I just went to examine the Kroos touches video again. Feel free to do the same. It's above.

In the first half alone on 25 of Kroos's started touches, Can was far ahead of him. On 4 touches, they were about even and on 3 touches Kroos was ahead of Can. On 1 of those 3 touches, Kroos overlapped Can. Thus if you only count starting positions when he initially got the ball started, only 2ice in the first 45 minutes did Kroos start a touch where he was physically ahead of Can.

But go ahead, show me the team sheet again. :) And explain how it's not a red herring.
 
BlueDeadHead said:
You say he is Yaya without the goals. Fair enough. But which Yaya? The one we saw the past two years? No way. The one we saw when we won the title? I would agree. He is Yaya from that season without the goals. That season Yaya was arguably the best player in the world so I would take Kroos if that is who you are comparing him to.
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Hence why I said "Yaya in his Prime" :) I think that use of phrase answers your question.

BTW, I'm not arguing we should keep Yaya or use him. I was just saying, their ball touches and pass completions were similar. And both are fantastic in that aspect. But that was not what our fans complained about with Yaya.

I think the point I was attempting to make there was that we seem to be ignoring a softness about Kroos. Not that he wasn't a fantastic footballer. I already stated he was.
 
Ashleymcduff said:
Kroos would have our midfield purring like a cat.
Imagine the passes into kdb , sane and kun
If we somehow managed to get him I'd be convinced we would have the league sown up by April
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FFS sake ... I've never seen such an optimistic view ... By April you say ? Any chance of a bigger impact and getting it done more than 4 weeks in advance of the end of season ? ;)
 
Dax777 said:
Hence why I said "Yaya in his Prime" :) I think that use of phrase answers your question.

BTW, I'm not arguing we should keep Yaya or use him. I was just saying, their ball touches and pass completions were similar. And both are fantastic in that aspect. But that was not what our fans complained about with Yaya.

I think the point I was attempting to make there was that we seem to be ignoring a softness about Kroos. Not that he wasn't a fantastic footballer. I already stated he was.
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I think you're slightly missing the point on Kroos. He'll be playing as a Pivote / deep lying playmaker with two midfielders in front of him pressing the ball. It won't be his job to win tackles and put people under pressure. That's the job of the two guys in front of him. If that resistence is broken, the strategy will be for the whole team to drop back in to a defensive shape, each holding a position. It's likely teams are going to try and hit us early on the break as we'll be playing a high line.

This is a world removed from how Yaya was exposed defensively last season. He was exposed because we were constantly outnumbered in the middle of the park and our two man midfield got outnumbered and overran. I'm willing to bet any figure you like that not a single team is going to outnumber us in midfield next season. I can't recall a game in Guardiola's career where that has happened. Yet Pellegrini set us up that way for two full seasons.

Kroos' job won't be to win the ball back. It will be to take the ball off the defenders, dictate play, set the tempo from deep and hold his position.
 
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