US Presidential Election, Nov 5th 2024

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FogBlueInSanFran said:
The “talking down to them” argument falls right into the trap populists lay. I posted this before — how should experts deal with the objections of non-experts? The only answer, apparently, is just to lie to them — every other option has been rejected as too “offensive” or “hurtful”, and you can’t ignore them because they have influence — as they should — in a democracy. Of course, as we discussed before, this was precisely what certain Greek philosophers and the founding fathers were concerned about in a democracy.
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The “genius,” if there is any, in Trump is that he tells you what will happen, but shapes it so you believe he is omniscient!

He knows he is going to go against the norms of society, so he tells you it’s not abnormal, but the liberal media are going to lie about it because they’re against America!

Then, he does something completely illiberal, the media decries it, he says “See, I told you so!” and the ill-informed and cultists say “That guy is a genius! He called it!”

Throw in a completely ineffective, lily livered, “never met an argument I couldn’t shy away from,” media, that is far too shy to stand on point and defend itself anymore for fear of offending some sliver of society, and it becomes a fait accompli that he dominates the domestic news IN HIS OWN WORDS!
 
bluesteel said:
I think Musk is outraged that his son transitioned to a woman, he clearly doesn’t agree with it and I’m not sure he wants to control much other than it not happening to other fathers.

I’m pretty sure it’s not money he wants, else he wouldn’t have bought Twitter.
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I hope he's playing the long game, because he lost shit loads on the deal to buy Twitter.
 
bluesteel said:
Read that from BBC

Ukraine are going to get told to forget about Crimea.

I do think Ukraine will get the rest of their land back, I already said in the other thread last week.

I said probably with some sort of Russian (but maybe UN) peacekeeping force.

Ultimately Russia will have concerns over what it classes as Russian citizens there, I can’t see them just walking out.

I think Trump pulls US out of NATO, personally. Read this as to why.

But it’s either going to be a US withdrawal or legal agreements (which Russia wanted before 2022) that Ukraine would never be part of NATO.

I think if the US do pull out of NATO, it essentially dies and a European army will be formed, which to be honest I think is better for everyone. Europe is protected from US instability as it is currently over reliant. Russia will probably feel more comfortable without the US on its borders and the US will make a shit ton of money selling arms to Europe. Edit: on top of the shit ton of money they’re making in supplying Europe with LNG (edit: and oil), because Europe aren’t getting it from Russia ever again. At least until it starts getting supplied from Gaza Marine anyway ;)

Another edit: I think the Europeans (Germans) are happy with this too, as they get access to the lithium in the Donbas they need for their electric cars. The Ukrainian government is bankrupt and western companies are going to be mining there, probably on a lease.
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Trump's biggest con on NATO is that he's convinced enough people that the NATO nations somehow pay actual cash money for the privilege of being in NATO and that the USA is stumping is the difference when the fail to do so. It's absolute nonsense of course, but the people who voted for him don't have a fucking clue how any of this works.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Trump's biggest con on NATO is that he's convinced enough people that the NATO nations somehow pay actual cash money for the privilege of being in NATO and that the USA is stumping is the difference when the fail to do so. It's absolute nonsense of course, but the people who voted for him don't have a fucking clue how any of this works.
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Yep. People are morons but you can’t tell them they’re morons because that would be rude and talking down to them so we’ve got to pretend their incorrect view has the same value as real facts.
And here we are. A moron voted in by morons because they’ve been gullible enough to believe a narrative propagated by cunts like Musk with insufficient pushback.
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Trump's biggest con on NATO is that he's convinced enough people that the NATO nations somehow pay actual cash money for the privilege of being in NATO and that the USA is stumping is the difference when the fail to do so. It's absolute nonsense of course, but the people who voted for him don't have a fucking clue how any of this works.
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Not sure that’s true, it was the 2% GDP commitment, to be fair 23 out of 32 now meet it since he started moaning, up from 6 (from memory).
 
Trevor Morley's Tache said:
Trump's biggest con on NATO is that he's convinced enough people that the NATO nations somehow pay actual cash money for the privilege of being in NATO and that the USA is stumping is the difference when the fail to do so. It's absolute nonsense of course, but the people who voted for him don't have a fucking clue how any of this works.
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It's not a case of paying to be in NATO, it's an agreement for member nations to commit a specific % of GDP to defence?
 
I'm With Stupid said:
If you're from the UK, chances are they're not going to be promoting US election stuff to you unless you have a history of looking it up. I haven't used it for a long time, but the BBC did an experiment with dummy 'undecided voter' accounts on social media for this election.

One key thing that came out is that Elon Musk's posts were heavily promoted, and a lot of those were blatantly promoting conspiracy nonsense and promoting Trump.

It was quite an interesting article.
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TinFoilHat said:
0800 FUCK OFF YOU WUM
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west didsblue said:
Yep. People are morons but you can’t tell them they’re morons because that would be rude and talking down to them so we’ve got to pretend their incorrect view has the same value as real facts.
And here we are. A moron voted in by morons because they’ve been gullible enough to believe a narrative propagated by cunts like Musk with insufficient pushback.
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“A moron voted in by morons.” That will flip a lot of votes!! The day after I said not to fret there is an over reaction declaring the Democrats dead. I said all will be well in the 2026 midterms and the Dems will regain control of one chamber.

Having seen the Dems reaction to this beat down, it appears there is no self awareness no sense of self examination. If they continue down this path, I might have to reconsider said prediction.

It might be moot since this is probably be the last time we Americans are allowed to cast votes if you listen to some of the totally unhinged Dems.

If you think Trump is bad now, wait until IF he has success in the midterms

Let’s be honest, the Dems fucked this up so badly on many different levels. It’s early days yet but they could continue down that path.
 
Frank the Yank said:
“A moron voted in by morons.” That will flip a lot of votes!! The day after I said not to fret there is an over reaction declaring the Democrats dead. I said all will be well in the 2026 midterms and the Dems will regain control of one chamber.

Having seen the Dems reaction to this beat down, it appears there is no self awareness no sense of self examination. If they continue down this path, I might have to reconsider said prediction.

It might be moot since this is probably be the last time we Americans are allowed to cast votes if you listen to some of the totally unhinged Dems.

If you think Trump is bad now, wait until IF he has success in the midterms

Let’s be honest, the Dems fucked this up so badly on many different levels. It’s early days yet but they could continue down that path.
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Everyone keeps saying they fucked up. I’m getting tired of asking the same question.

No one has offered a winning solution to a candidate willing to lie and lie and lie and lie and millions who believe him.

Lay out your strategy for how you’d have defeated him then.

And don’t moan about Biden’s late exit — I already said he should have dropped out at the latest after the midterms back then.

I’m all ears — we all are.
 
Frank the Yank said:
“A moron voted in by morons.” That will flip a lot of votes!! The day after I said not to fret there is an over reaction declaring the Democrats dead. I said all will be well in the 2026 midterms and the Dems will regain control of one chamber.

Having seen the Dems reaction to this beat down, it appears there is no self awareness no sense of self examination. If they continue down this path, I might have to reconsider said prediction.

It might be moot since this is probably be the last time we Americans are allowed to cast votes if you listen to some of the totally unhinged Dems.

If you think Trump is bad now, wait until IF he has success in the midterms

Let’s be honest, the Dems fucked this up so badly on many different levels. It’s early days yet but they could continue down that path.
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Just stating opinion not trying to change minds about voting.
This is Bluemoon not Twitter or Facebook. If some Trump voters or supporters see their arses I don’t really give a fuck.
 
bluesteel said:
That’s temporary and fluctuating, not really “got his money back” but maybe I’m being pedantic.

He’s certainly got his money worth if it’s power he craves…
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If you want to be really pedantic he didn’t stump up $44bn of his own cash. It was a combination of cash, shares, bank loans and other investors.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Arrogance of wealth FORCED him to have to buy Twitter after his mouth got him in trouble. The courts weren’t having his buyers remorse, so some of his Tesla stock bought it.

Now, it’s a cesspit.
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On the other hand, if it was part of his plan to help get Trump elected it was money well spent.
 
west didsblue said:
Just stating opinion not trying to change minds about voting.
This is Bluemoon not Twitter or Facebook. If some Trump voters or supporters see their arses I don’t really give a fuck.
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Loads of different opinions, nowt wrong with that, as long as it’s an educated opinion, knock your socks off.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
Yes, but that isn't the stuff getting posted here that I'm talking about. The idea that America suddenly changed this week is nonsense. America is the same as it was last week, it's just that the penny has dropped with democrats that hardy anyone more than 30 miles inland of the coast thinks they are a good idea or agrees with them. The behaviour described on here of groups of young men and idiotic racist text messages probably amount to a huge 'fuck you' from people that have just endured months of being insulted and talked down to. It's all been like watching a slow moving car crash.
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If I were a betting man, I'd put more money on lots of these being Hoaxes. It won't shock me if the text messages were sent by some liberal pulling a nasty prank.

The Jussie Smollett tactic.

It won't be the first time some people 're-ensvt' what they believe s 'racist Trump supporter' is supposed to sound or act like.

It's all despicable stuff. But easily lapped up by folks who want to expect the worst so bad that they are yarning for it.
 
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