Var debate 2019/20

[dennishasdoneit]

It’s cheating , this is a multi million pound gravy train , there is no way those decisions would have been given against Utd or Liverpool , let alone Barcelona or Real Madrid

No.way.at.all.well said.

 

[dennishasdoneit]

It's pretty fucking obvious that the ball clearly bounces of his forearm onto his hip and then on goal. This is clear in the replay that WASN'T shown to the ref (still no valid explanation as to why ?????). If you cant see this then your a blind bat or fuckin deluded.
Those fuckwits that say it has to be deliberate give your head a wobble, he's not a defender and the rule states you cant score a goal when your hand/arm has contributed to the goal regardless if it was intentional or not.

IFAB LAWS OF THE GAME

"a player gains control/possession of the ball after it touches their hand/arm and then scores or creates a goal-scoring opportunity." Another one says it's a free kick if "the ball goes into the goal after touching an attacking player's hand/arm."

We were fucked over by incompetent use of the system, be it deliberate or otherwise from those directing replay angles shown. That's all there is to it.
We'll do the domestic treble this year and win the European Cup if and when UEFA (who are as corrupt as FIFA and IOC) decide to play fair.

P.S don't hold your breath.

Very good post mate.Bang on.
When you then consider BT sports brought walton on ,as an ex ref expert,who said...before the actual decision was made....."thats definitely hit his knee"
Then you begin to understand the level of deceipt here.its so quick,so fluid,so professional....
The ball did not hit his knee.walton was talking bollocks,doing his best to paper over the fraud.....its really quite sad that the game of football has come to this.i was shocked when i watched anthony taylor cheat me and City a couple of years back,now i am stunned by BT s antics.

 

[dennishasdoneit]

I know it won't but that incident should signal the end of VAR as it currently exists.

If the goal stands, the finish to the game would be equally exciting and instead of Llorente's goal being controversial, Sterling's goal would be. But that scenario is just as plausible because the referee and the linesman did not make any kind of decision to be reviewed. If the little men in the secret room had let it go, nobody would know at the time. The argument would develop later, the headlines would be different. In another game with two different teams, a different outcome could occur and almost everybody would be happy with it, human error they'd say later.
One poster pointed out the difference from one frame to another. On Wednesday night, Liverpool scored a goal that was immediately signaled offside by the linesman. VAR overruled the decision and the picture shown was not in line with the ball, the ball itself was obscured by one of the players, but the commentators spoke as if it proved Mane was onside. Presumably, that picture with red and blue lines was provided by the host broadcaster. Move the video forward and Mane looks offside but they didn't show any lines on that frame. What they showed really wasn't conclusive and you just had to take it on trust.
Same with Sterling's goal, except that they didn't even bother to show the decisive contact and draw their stupid lines. So, they abused their own system twice in City's game and once in the Porto game. They've got away with it, as well, because lots of people are happy that City are out. How can they use a still image to overrule the linesman if you can't see the ball in the frame? Because there are millions of people watching at home who don't really care much or don't even know the game properly. And the commentators haven't got the nuts to pull the cord on the gravy train. It's just a couple of hours of TV with advertising slots to sell. UEFA want lots of TV viewers so they can get more from advertising and the spectators in the ground are just a minority concern.
The game in Gelsenkirchen was a sinister development that was ignored by journalists. The VAR didn't work but we only found that out when they decided to use it to check the award of a corner. After a long delay, they awarded a penalty for what was clearly not deliberate handball. How come the equipment stopped working at that particular moment? What a coincidence. And if it had stopped earlier, why was this not communicated to the referee and the spectators? Why not make it public? Then the home team got another VAR awarded penalty. The problem was fixed at 2-0 to the home team IIRC.
The sinister bit is that Schalke and the Champions League are both sponsored by Gazprom. The EU gets about 25% of its gas from Gazprom and Germany gets more than a third of its domestic supply from them.

Arguing the toss about isolated incidents is pointless. The implementation of the scam, I mean scheme, is the problem. You can't have unseen men intervening in secret when they see fit. If the ref wants it OK. Better still if a team wants it OK. Let's stop the game and let the men in the room have a full look at it. Everybody knows what's going on, nobody jumps up and down hugging strangers only to be left feeling foolish and cheated.

Brilliant post.No.666...Beast of a post ; )

 

[dennishasdoneit]

How do you know that the referee didn't see it strike his arm and yet still regard it as unintentional and therefore good? It definitely flicks his arm but the collision that directs it to goal is his hip.

I've re-read the rules and watched it back. The goal in my opinion is fortunate but good. I'm no more competent than you so just an opinion.

Deluded.Zombie.ffs!!!!!

 

[dennishasdoneit]

I love it, I think it adds to the drama. There will still be contentious decisions, but generally there'll be less big mistakes, which is a good thing.

Regarding Wednesday, I don't think Llorente's goal should be classed as handball, as it was completely unintentional, but based on what we've seen given in the CL this season (Otamendi, Kimpembe, etc) I'm disappointed it wasn't as the rule seemed to be if it hits your arm in the box it's a foul.

As for Sergio, by the letter of the current law, it was correctly ruled offside. However, I've argued for ages that the offside law is ridiculous. It shouldn't matter if someone's toe or left knee is offside, that sort of margin makes no difference. The law was created to stop goal hanging. I'm not sure what the exact solution is, but I would suggest that changing it to "if any part of you is onside, then you are onside". That way, realistically, you have to be a yard ahead of the defender to be given offside, which would remove the majority of instances where someone who isn't trying to goal hang is given offside because of miniscule timing differences.

As for VAR ruling it out and spoiling the fun. I'd much rather have has those celebrations and then the deflation that followed than the linesman stick his flag up straight away. Football is about tension, drama and the emotions that come with them and we got a boat load of that on Wednesday night. It went against us this time, but sometimes it will. I bet it was brilliant in the Spurs end when that decision flashed up, they went crazy, which wouldn't have happened if the linesman had simply raised his flag.

Whats your view on corruption in football?

 

[dennishasdoneit]

VAR is still effectively in its infancy. There are going to be errors and we were bloody unfortunate that one glaring error helped knock us out the competition. The drama that surrounded our knockout blow has been in the public eye, it has been backed by tabloids saying it was handball. Even Llorrente has admitted he was sure it would be wiped out

And then lets add to the fact that an official has come forward to say it was not used correctly. The only good that can come out if this is if lessons are learnt and the ref on the pitch, lets not forget is the most important person as he is making the decision - so UEFA should be aware of this now, needs full access to multiple camera angles. As we are all aware the angle he was shown makes it look like he was only hit on the hip.

Another thing that needs to be addressed with the introduction of VAR, is the rulebook needs to be changed. I think it all needs to be simplified in terms of what is and what isnt offside amongst others. Offside now should revert back to having clear daylight between the last defender and the firward placed attacker, none of this his ankle or foot was offside

The worrying issue with VAR if what i read the other day by another Blue posting on here, is if it is the TV station that provides the camera angle to the officials. If this is true it needs to be stopped immediately, it leaves the whole situation in the hands of a non-football entity dictating who they want to favour.

Yes let the station provide the camera angle but if this us how UEFA want it to be provided then they should have an official in the box with the people from where the images are beamed from, so he is dictating that all angles are fed through to the pitch official.

I would also say to UEFA that us as match going fans want to be kept in the loop, not have to rely on watching this unfold from the stands in the dark or on your mobile. The images should be fed to the large screen in the stadium

Var is not in its infancy.
It was used at last summers world cup.
Stop making excuses.
Its Corruption thats the bastard problem here

 

[M12Blue]

B

Var is not in its infancy.
It was used at last summers world cup.
Stop making excuses.
Its Corruption thats the bastard problem here

Said it earlier only way VAR works is if team ask for review not anonymous men in a van. Then play on the screens. It must be above board and seen to be.

Also think offside needs completely looking at. Got to determine how clear advantage is determined because someone’s toe being further ahead of the last man does not create an advantage for the striker.
If can’t be achieved then simply put a ‘electronic gps tag’ in the toe of each boot and simply see whose tag is further forward. Forget about any other part of the body able to score, irrelevant. That way offside standardised and not subjective.

 

[A_Salty_Nut]

B

Said it earlier only way VAR works is if team ask for review not anonymous men in a van. Then play on the screens. It must be above board and seen to be.

Also think offside needs completely looking at. Got to determine how clear advantage is determined because someone’s toe being further ahead of the last man does not create an advantage for the striker.
If can’t be achieved then simply put a ‘electronic gps tag’ in the toe of each boot and simply see whose tag is further forward. Forget about any other part of the body able to score, irrelevant. That way offside standardised and not subjective.

Yea but if they were to start making exceptions where do you stop? The rule is fundamentally flawed but it has to be consistent or else that just creates an even bigger farce. If Spurs scored from a player that was in an offside position and it was spared because it was just 'a toe' you'd also cry foul play so no point really.

 

[trublue55]

No angle shows it to be handball in my opinion. It brushes his forearm but I don't think it's deliberate and hence according to the rules it's not a handball offence. I've read what people have to say about it, and the references made to UEFA guidance but I think it's a lucky goal, but a good goal.

Good god, yesterday you said we should all move on, and then you come out with this shit. Don’t you get it, your opinion is IRRELEVANT, as is mine, unless you are eufa, and you make the rules, or issue a DIRECTIVE, and change them.

They did, next season that is handball in the prem and Europe. This season in champions league knockouts, ITS HANDBALL, because they say it is, and they run the competition. The problem is they didn’t stick to their own rules, by failing to show the referee the correct angle.

Just accept a mistake was made, and move on, and stop trying to push, what you would like the rules to be, or erroneously think they are!

 

[Blue Mooner]

Conclusive ....

If you watch this clip you can see that llorente is clearly looking at the flight of the ball, he moves his elbow out slightly, then as it gets nearer he adjusts his arm position back towards him almost to ensure the ball hits off the firm part of his elbow (which would be logical to get the most power off the impact) which directs the ball towards goal brushing off his hip.

I should move on from this but I'm still absolutely fuming that the technology intended to get decisions right has so spectacularly failed.