West Ham post game....

[East Level 2]

Some right muppets, WUMs and rags knocking about the forum tonight. Good point today. 3 points off top in January. Trophies to win yet. Get a grip/life.

We were top (not a couple of points behind) on New Years Day 2015 and didn't have the League Cup to distract us.
We finished 8 points behind Chelsea, so would you and the rest of those that don't worry every time we piss away a couple of points please explain why we should expect it to be different this season. Come on, just explain it. Are we better up front? Are we more solid at the back? Does the midfield protect the defence and supply the forwards more efficiently? Or are you just hoping we'll get it right?

 

[BobKowalski]

Why did Delph get subbed first? He was out best midfielder by far. Silva was complete gash so too Pellegrini.

A point at West Ham isn't too bad this season so mustn't grumble too much.

I'm not grumbling at the point. West Ham are a good side and played very well yesterday. A point when they are in that form is OK. I don't even agree with most of the player criticism esp Toure...its just that wretched 2nd goal. It's killed me. We concede too many of these soft, dozy arsed goals. It's becoming the signature tune of Pellers reign. At Villa in his first season we were undone by a long hopeful punt upfield and two seasons later it's a throw in. No team at this level or any fucking level should be undone like that. No more. Enough is enough.

 

[fatbloke]

Velencia was left on his own as Delph got sucked towards the ball. Yaya also at fault too, obviously.

We keep hold of the ball more in the oppositions half, and we move from defence to attack more quickly. We've won 14/18 points when Yaya has played DM in away games this season. We've won 2/15 when he hasn't.

Yaya's laziness was solely responsible for that first goal, everything after that is a reaction by other players to try and mop up his mess.

Otamendi was absolutely right to step up and try to block/intercept the only option Kouyate had to pass to, he cannot think that Yaya having a 4/5 yard head start on Kouyate is going to get beaten one vs one. As a consequence of Yaya letting his man stroll past him, Otamendi has no alternative but to leave Valencia to try to get back at Kouyate. Delph can see Otamendi is stranded and has very little chance of getting back at Kouyate so busts a gut to try and block the shot/cross which he successfully does, an unfortunate bounce and the rest his history.

If you genuinely think we move the ball quicker when Yaya is on the pitch then god help you, if anything he's the main reason we're so lethargic in possession. **In regards to that statement I completely retract it if you're basing your statement as a comparison with Fernando**. As I see it we would be far quicker not only winning the ball back but also on the counter attack if we used Fernandinho and Delph, we would have far more movement from either of them running past the attacking midfielders and striker(s) to create more space for Silva and De Bruyne which would considerably speed up our attack and improve our movement against 'park the bus' tactics.

 

[FantasyIreland]

I'm not grumbling at the point. West Ham are a good side and played very well yesterday. A point when they are in that form is OK. I don't even agree with most of the player criticism esp Toure...its just that wretched 2nd goal. It's killed me. We concede too many of these soft, dozy arsed goals. It's becoming the signature tune of Pellers reign. At Villa in his first season we were undone by a long hopeful punt upfield and two seasons later it's a throw in. No team at this level or any fucking level should be undone like that. No more. Enough is enough.

Enough is enough but the reality is we can expect a fair few further similar episodes while this management tesm is in situ

 

[stonerblue]

Well said mate. Spot on.

Thanks.

 

[fatbloke]

Nope. He had no reason to step out of position. It was Delphs man. Him stepping out of position lead to a big gap in the box for kouyate to exploit leading to the goal.

Under Mancini's management I'd completely agree because the emphasis was all on containing the opposition and staying in position to cover anyone getting beaten one vs one.

Under Pellegrini's management I'd completely disagree because the emphasis is all on winning the ball back quickly and trying to intercept/block passes which is considerably more risky but if everyone does their jobs is considerably more rewarding.

In that example, Delph is goal side of Valencia but Kouyate still has the option of a give and go with him. Otamendi rightly (under our current defensive system) steps up to intercept/block that potential pass, trusting Yaya not to get beaten with a 4/5 head start on his man. Once Kouyate has beaten Yaya, he's one on one with Hart unless Otamendi or Delph try to rectify the situation. Communication is impossible in that scenario because they don't have time to decide who goes and who stays, defensive instinct kicks in and they both go. Neither is to blame for that, Yaya is solely responsible for putting them in a situation they should never be in, all because he can't be arsed to stay with a runner or even show the instinct to drop him if needed.

 

[Essex blue]

Enough is enough but the reality is we can expect a fair few further similar episodes while this management tesm is in situ

To be fair both goals were poor mistakes but it's the midfield lets us down.

Toure needs to play further forward or come on as a sub.

I prefer sterling to KDB in some games as he gives more protection to the defence and the first few games of the season sterling kolarov linked very well.

We just seem to lack the spark in the middle of the park, silva, toure, Kdb probably shouldn't all be on the pitch at the same time as they don't seem to click.

When we played with silva, toure and nasri we played beautiful intricate football!

I really like Payet as a player and think he would fit into our team really well especially as Silva probably has two more good seasons in him before he starts coming on as sub due to age.

 

[Len Rum]

West Ham fans on their forum raving about their performance as their best of the season.
Notice a pattern - Dippers and Joke?
No doubt the Hammers will revert to their 'normal' level of form after this game as did Liverpool and Stoke.
I don't believe these teams are raising their game against us ( if they were the results would be easier to accept), rather we are so easy to play against.
A combination of a dodgy defence, a midfield that gives it no protection and a bunch of players who mainly don't put in a shift being the reason.
The manager's team selection,tactics and subs don't help.
Unless this is sorted out soon we will win nothing this season.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Velencia was left on his own as Delph got sucked towards the ball. Yaya also at fault too, obviously.

We keep hold of the ball more in the oppositions half, and we move from defence to attack more quickly. We've won 14/18 points when Yaya has played DM in away games this season. We've won 2/15 when he hasn't.

I don't disagree with your basic premise that Yaya is important to us but I fundamentally disagree that he's played as a DM. He isn't and defensive midfield players don't score 20 goals like he did two seasons ago. De Jong was a defensive midfielder as his role was to sit in front of the back four and intercept anything coming in to avoid a defender being exposed.

I don't really know the correct definition for the role that Yaya does - maybe deep-lying playmaker, link-man or something - but he basically dictates the rhythm of the team, taking the ball off defenders and keeping it moving, mostly forwards. Somewhat like Pirlo.

 

[Chippy_boy]

The fact that we have gone backwards over the last two seasons, despite the investment in the team, is unacceptable. People point to the fact that we're still fighting on four fronts, but it's pretty plausible we could end the season trophyless again.

Keep playing like that and I would say it is a cast-iron certainty.

 

[deano ou812]

A point wasn't bad but it's more the performances away from home which will end up costing us,we seem to go into games half arsed and end up making it hard for ourselves by going behind,and then end up chasing the game too many players not performing.we badly miss kompany but it's also shocking that we struggle so much without him,and apart from him and possibly hart have no real leaders out on the pitch who can rally the team when things aren't going our way...

 

[herrock]

Because Pellegrini don't want to upset the the big money signings

Exactly.

 

[adeinchessy]

Yaya's laziness was solely responsible for that first goal, everything after that is a reaction by other players to try and mop up his mess.

Otamendi was absolutely right to step up and try to block/intercept the only option Kouyate had to pass to, he cannot think that Yaya having a 4/5 yard head start on Kouyate is going to get beaten one vs one. As a consequence of Yaya letting his man stroll past him, Otamendi has no alternative but to leave Valencia to try to get back at Kouyate. Delph can see Otamendi is stranded and has very little chance of getting back at Kouyate so busts a gut to try and block the shot/cross which he successfully does, an unfortunate bounce and the rest his history.

If you genuinely think we move the ball quicker when Yaya is on the pitch then god help you, if anything he's the main reason we're so lethargic in possession. **In regards to that statement I completely retract it if you're basing your statement as a comparison with Fernando**. As I see it we would be far quicker not only winning the ball back but also on the counter attack if we used Fernandinho and Delph, we would have far more movement from either of them running past the attacking midfielders and striker(s) to create more space for Silva and De Bruyne which would considerably speed up our attack and improve our movement against 'park the bus' tactics.

Yes I agree with this. Whereas once when I saw Yaya's name on the teamsheet it gave me confidence we'd win, now my heart sinks (if he's in a defensive 2). He's no longer a defensive minded player. I'm much happier to see Fernandinho & Delph in that position. Neither of them have Yaya's ability (though they're both excellent) but they more than make up for that with their energy & commitment. I like it when Kelechi plays as well - we seem much more dangerous with him & Aguero up front together. That leaves any 2 from (currently) Silva, KDB, Sterling & Navas to threaten going forward

 

[swblue64]

Never said it had, chill out.

It was obvious what you was trying to say mate and i for one agree with you. Our defence is an embarassment and i also dread to think what could happen with Neymar, Messi and Suarez running at us.

 

[worsleyweb]

Can't be bothered reading some of these. We have lost 3 times away all season at arsenal, Stoke and Spurs. West Ham have not lost at home for 5 months.

Thought we played quite well from what I saw. Bad mistake from otamendi but we hit the post twice. Fine margins.

Of course the team needs some tweaking and this will happen.

 

[stablemcfc]

Sterling looked horrible today. Worse than Dave in less time. Lost 4 balls in 35 minutes of playing, delivered an over the defense pass late, and stopped to winge at the ref when he didn't get a call.

I'd have started him too, and we will both have been wrong today.

Fernando ( or preferably Dihno if fully fit) coming in after we got the equalizer was the absolute right call. This is one that shodnt even be questioned.

Kelechi came on, so you are just nitpicking timeing difference. I am okay with 20 minutes for a substitute. The goal is to make an immediate impact. He did. Good on the Manager.

Yes he didn't have a particularly great impact in those 30 minutes, but that's not my point. He's been good for the majority of the season, so to say he shouldn't start over someone whose been poor for 4-5 matches now because he had a poor impact as a substitute seems a little odd. Not to mention the fact if he starts then we can have our front 4 all in their natural positions rather than the nonsense of Silva/KdB as wingers.

Fernando coming on for Silva was the right call? Perhaps if we wanted to hang on for the draw, which is what the last 10 minutes turned into after that substitution - but why should we be wanting to hang onto a draw against West Ham? This is a team that got destroyed by Newcastle just last week - a point is simply not a good result, we needed a win & I think you'd struggle to say we're more likely to get the win with Fernando on the pitch in place of Silva regardless of how he'd played.

Think you're misinterpreting my post, Kelechi came on & had a positive impact yes - and whenever he has come on he's almost invariably had a positive impact correct? I'm saying the manager did the right thing bringing him on for 30 minutes, whereas in the past he's given him 2-3 minutes which is next to pointless really - my point was that he should be doing what he did today more in the future, rather than reverting back to giving him 2-3 minutes which wouldn't surprise anyone if it happened.

 

[Dribble]

While a draw at West Ham wouldnt be the reason,his casefile gets thicker.

Shit! Not the infamous Dossier again?

 

[malg]

Yaya's laziness was solely responsible for that first goal, everything after that is a reaction by other players to try and mop up his mess.

Otamendi was absolutely right to step up and try to block/intercept the only option Kouyate had to pass to, he cannot think that Yaya having a 4/5 yard head start on Kouyate is going to get beaten one vs one. As a consequence of Yaya letting his man stroll past him, Otamendi has no alternative but to leave Valencia to try to get back at Kouyate. Delph can see Otamendi is stranded and has very little chance of getting back at Kouyate so busts a gut to try and block the shot/cross which he successfully does, an unfortunate bounce and the rest his history.

If you genuinely think we move the ball quicker when Yaya is on the pitch then god help you, if anything he's the main reason we're so lethargic in possession. **In regards to that statement I completely retract it if you're basing your statement as a comparison with Fernando**. As I see it we would be far quicker not only winning the ball back but also on the counter attack if we used Fernandinho and Delph, we would have far more movement from either of them running past the attacking midfielders and striker(s) to create more space for Silva and De Bruyne which would considerably speed up our attack and improve our movement against 'park the bus' tactics.

Utter shite.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Utter shite.

I agree. The Hammers player was just more mobile for the first goal.

I thought Yaya put in a good shift. He's not the player of a couple of years ago but I liked the way he was putting in challenges to the end of the game.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Thought the ref had a good game for once. Got the pen right and most other decisions and bookings were fair for both teams.