Why are we always so poor against Klopp’s Liverpool?

[Steve68]

You could also ask, why don't Liverpool play that way against other teams? They seem to raise their game against us

Maybe but we need to find an answer to the question how do we handle them at a raging fire Anfield.

 

[sh249]

Hard to explain, really. There’s obviously a tactical element, in the sense that the way we set up plays into their hands. We’re a sitting duck for them to press hard, turn the ball over and exploit the spaces we leave at the back. And that job of pressing and harrying is what the likes of Milner, Henderson, Chamberlain, Wijnaldum etc. were born for. Give them the ball forty yards from goal, with six opponents in front of them (e.g. against Utd), and they’re all a waste of time - none of them has any discernible quality or creativity on the ball (which is part of the reason they shell points against lesser sides as well). But ask them to rattle into tackles and run the likes of Silva and De Bruyne off the ball, and they do it well. And we simply haven’t found a way to cope. We’re also not especially well-equipped to bypass their press with more direct balls forward (even if Pep were to countenance that) - we don’t have the option of hitting a Lukaku type and playing off him. We could have played for another week last night and Jesus wouldn’t have won a header against Van Dijk and Lovren (not a criticism, just not his game). It’s just too easy for them to outmuscle and outfight us.

And linked to that, there’s also a clear mental aspect. Put bluntly, we freeze every time we play at Anfield, including our best players. Pattern is always effectively the same - give a horrible early goal away (usually through piss poor mistakes), then shit ourselves as they tear into us with their tails up. We lose all composure, and our game invariably goes to pieces. It was staggering how often, during that spell after the first goal, we gave the ball away, with everyone guilty. And perhaps the most annoying aspect is that we saw a real lack of leadership during that period. No-one was willing to stand up and take the game by the scruff of the neck - instead, our most experienced players (Kompany, Otamendi, Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Silva) all lost their heads and/or went into their shells. We also simply don’t play with the same intensity and urgency - they won every second ball in the first half, and were so committed in sticking to our men - don’t think there was a single occasion over the 90 minutes when Jesus received the ball without a defender stuck to him like a limpet. They, by contrast, were able to play the ball into their front three with ease, as we stood five yards off and allowed them to control, turn and get at us.

Of course we’d all like to think that things will be different next week, and it’s obviously not yet done and dusted. But, hand on heart, I think the chances of us turning it around are virtually none. To be honest, I’d be surprised if we win the game, let alone by the requisite margin. Here’s hoping I’m wrong and we do turn the fuckers over.

 

[waspish]

It’s not Klopp it’s the curse of Anfield our record there is diabolical.

 

[OB1]

I don't think it's specifically Klopp's Liverpool, although Guardiola clearly struggles against him in personal duels. We always struggle at Anfield. Our record there is absurdly bad and crosses numerous generations and players. One of those things I guess. Would love to see us bury that hoodoo at some point though. If we can do it at Old Trafford there's no real reason why we can't at Liverpool.

In regards to playing at their place, I do think there's a mental hurdle that needs to be overcome. The players know, just as we do, that we always do badly there and I think it affects them. It's not helped by the sort of refereeing decisions we saw last night or that some Liverpool players seem to have a habit have hitting screamers against us, Chamber Pot being the latest (has he even scored in between his goals against us?). We have regularly conceded soft early goals there and last night was depressingly predictable in so many ways.

You can question the tactics but when the players are mentally undone, as they were, we cannot be sure if alternative tactics would change things. That said, I would have tried a different approach and if not exactly parking the bus, made a far more cautious opening, played five at the back, an possibly used Sterling and Sane as a front two with the ball played over the top or diagonally wide some of the time. No guarantees it would have worked and Pep may feel he doesn't trust his defence to sit back and soak up pressure or think they just have not practiced that enough because they so rarely need to be able to so it.

Liverpool do play a way that our team does not enjoy and maybe highlights a need for even better ball players and / or some ballsier ones but those goals last night should have been avoidable: Walker could and should have put the ball out for a corner; Vinnie could and should have covered the space in front of the Pox; and, Otamendi should not have gone racing up field with the ball not under control. Any Liverpool pressure involved or tactics from either team does not excuse the metanl errors in those cases.

 

[Newman Noggs]

Given that Liverpool play their games against us as if they were one-off cup ties, their cup final so to speak, I'm wondering if we're just not a very good cup side.

Sounds daft given we won the league cup but there were a couple of games where we scraped through against lower level opponents on penalties and got knocked out of the FA Cup by Wigan.

Winning the league over 38 games requires a different mentality to winning knock-out trophies. Doubles aren't done very often because it requires a decent slice of luck and/or a certain versatility. Just a theory i've been pondering over.

 

[Armaan]

You could also ask, why don't Liverpool play that way against other teams? They seem to raise their game against us

It’s because of the way we play, it doesn’t take a genius to work that one out. If they could pick a style of play to play against in a one off game it’d be ours. If we could pick a style to not play against in a one off game, it’d be theirs. Even before Klopp, they’ve always had the same tactic but we’ve always walked straight in to it like a bunch of d******s. Fucking depressing when us nobodies on a forum can see it yet these managers that are paid millions can’t.

It’s also depressing how it seems the rags would give Liverpool a better game over two legs than us. What really hurts me is that I fell for all the hype about us. Best British team ever. As good as peps Barca. Really hurt my soul watching us get dealt with so easily. Unfortunately I think peps Barca were a one off, you need 11 elite players to play that way, we have 2.

Laporte aside, we need a new first choice CB and a RB. Otamendi and Kompany can’t cut when they’re pressed and Walker is average against decent teams. We really missed Mendy last night.

 

[Mancity1980]

Why don't we? Our back line is more than good enough. Fernandinho knows how to defend. KDB and Dave both press and win balls back with the best of them. Jesus can certainly run. The issue isn't that we don't have players, its that it wasn't the plan tonight. If we wanted to soak up pressure I'm sure we could.

Our defending is executed with possession and neat passing at the back as part of our build up play not Tony pulis style 9 men in the box then lumb it up to the big guy looks very simple and unsophisticated but it takes practice, training, discipline and particular players. I take your point about Jesus and some of our defenders but it would involve all the players. We could do it but alas not as well as the rags, then again their players did not look that good against us did they?

The way I see it is that it is horses for courses. Liverpool have the players and a style of play that is the kryptonite to superman Man City but like kryptonite it has little effect on ordinary human Man Utd, still makes us better than all of them judging by the points gap.

Given time and development I am sure superman can deal with kryptonite (he won in the end in Superman I and III didn’t he?)

 

[Scaring Europe to Death]

The last three months have mirrored Bayern Munich’s annual Bundesliga procession of opponents too scared to play football, for fear of being humiliated.

Consequently we’ve finished most games with 70th minute substitutions, the team in 1st gear, and everybody bored, and heading for the exits to beat the traffic.

Just like Bayern we win the League by a country mile.
Just like Bayern, we face an ambitious team in the CL and things start to go wrong. BANG!
Last night it was Liverpool, but it could easily have been Barca or Real Madrid.

 

[Silvas' left eyebrow]

We struggle because we are tailor made for Liverpool. We leave acres of space behind because we camp in other teams half. Example first goal. All be it offside. Mo Salah is heading into an empty city half at pace and being as direct as possible. Also we play out so we can get caught very , very deep into our own half sometimes deep in our penalty box. Like a Grand Prix car. When it goes well 180 miles an hour looks easy . When it goes wrong it's left smoking in a sand trap and a invalid scooter is quicker.
We won't change under pep and I'm fine with that however as I said on a previous thread I am disappointed with senior pros game management. We can see and here what's going on in the stadium. So let's break it up. Stop the flow of the game go down injured take a few minutes. Win a free kick get caught up in a fake hand bags moment. Take too long over a throw just try to kill the flow.

 

[Silvas' left eyebrow]

Hard to explain, really. There’s obviously a tactical element, in the sense that the way we set up plays into their hands. We’re a sitting duck for them to press hard, turn the ball over and exploit the spaces we leave at the back. And that job of pressing and harrying is what the likes of Milner, Henderson, Chamberlain, Wijnaldum etc. were born for. Give them the ball forty yards from goal, with six opponents in front of them (e.g. against Utd), and they’re all a waste of time - none of them has any discernible quality or creativity on the ball (which is part of the reason they shell points against lesser sides as well). But ask them to rattle into tackles and run the likes of Silva and De Bruyne off the ball, and they do it well. And we simply haven’t found a way to cope. We’re also not especially well-equipped to bypass their press with more direct balls forward (even if Pep were to countenance that) - we don’t have the option of hitting a Lukaku type and playing off him. We could have played for another week last night and Jesus wouldn’t have won a header against Van Dijk and Lovren (not a criticism, just not his game). It’s just too easy for them to outmuscle and outfight us.

And linked to that, there’s also a clear mental aspect. Put bluntly, we freeze every time we play at Anfield, including our best players. Pattern is always effectively the same - give a horrible early goal away (usually through piss poor mistakes), then shit ourselves as they tear into us with their tails up. We lose all composure, and our game invariably goes to pieces. It was staggering how often, during that spell after the first goal, we gave the ball away, with everyone guilty. And perhaps the most annoying aspect is that we saw a real lack of leadership during that period. No-one was willing to stand up and take the game by the scruff of the neck - instead, our most experienced players (Kompany, Otamendi, Fernandinho, De Bruyne, Silva) all lost their heads and/or went into their shells. We also simply don’t play with the same intensity and urgency - they won every second ball in the first half, and were so committed in sticking to our men - don’t think there was a single occasion over the 90 minutes when Jesus received the ball without a defender stuck to him like a limpet. They, by contrast, were able to play the ball into their front three with ease, as we stood five yards off and allowed them to control, turn and get at us.

Of course we’d all like to think that things will be different next week, and it’s obviously not yet done and dusted. But, hand on heart, I think the chances of us turning it around are virtually none. To be honest, I’d be surprised if we win the game, let alone by the requisite margin. Here’s hoping I’m wrong and we do turn the fuckers over.

Agree........I don't believe we will stop Liverpool scoring and regardless what we do it won't be enough.
I think any of bayern.real or barca will spank Liverpool in semi so a bit of karma. We will have to be content with ONLY two trophies. Sorry Liverpool.
2018 the year you nearly won the CL again.........